Please BFC, fix this problem soon !!!

[sburke]

People are so wierd, and unpredictable. As they say "it takes all sorts". I am just astonished that anyone can be arguing that its acceptable that a spotter casualty can take out a whole arty battery for the whole game, converting it into a random storm of spotting rounds in the process. It's not just a casualty in a "precious FOs who should be protected anyhow" that cause this. It's any unit that calls in arty.

What can I say? Astonishing. It seems like any game behaviour can be rationalised by someone.

LOL got that right. The forum would be a boring place otherwise.

As a side note, I'm curious how you use FOs (or any spotter) in bocage country without having them on the front line, exposed to fire. Maybe you have big ladders, or portable towers, or something I didn't find yet?

GaJ

It is tough. Sometimes unavoidable if the terrain is that bad, but I am one of those who protects my FOs like they are the One Ring. I also will make some extra effort and risk if I spot an opponents. Just ask Broadsword. In that particular battle though the spotting rounds did provide a very odd random artillery screen holding up my advance.

For specific batteries that required a particular individual I can see losing contact with the battery, but definitely not for the company mortars etc. In the battle I mentioned it was the FO for the chemical mortar battery that was lost.

One way of protecting your FO is to make sure you have TRPs, makes all the difference in the world and you don't need ladder or towers. There is another thread suggesting scenario designers include them more.

[Broadsword56]

As the nincompoop who got my FO killed early in our HTH battle, rendering an entire battalion of chemical mortars powerless to assist my beleaguered infantry company against the Nazi hordes, I can only say I've emerged humbled and enlightened by the experience. I've read that FOs had an extremely dangerous job, and they did have to see the enemy (while trying to prevent the enemy from seeing them). But this is exactly the dilemma that the real commanders faced in the bocage: Use your FOs effectively to spot up front and risk getting them killed, or protect them somewhere from a rear vantage point and just live with their reduced ability to spot from there. This is also why vantage points like church steeples and Hill 122 were such sought-after and fought-over pieces of Normandy: Anyone occupying them could put FOs there, and accurately and safely target enemy units from thousands of yards away. There's nothing about CMBN that prevents us from simulating this. Just make a larger map and put an FO team in its own little setup zone in the rear where it can get LOS.

[Erwin]

One issue is that I have found church steeples (in the game) to be death traps if the enemy has any sort of larger gun firepower. It is such an obvious target.

[JonS]

I believe they found that to be the case in 1944, too.

[GreenAsJade]

Yeah, that guy in SPR died in the church tower, it must be true

[Peregrine]

Not trying to explain away the behaviour but if you are seeing this a lot you are probably overexposing the guys calling the artillery.

I have played this game megahours and can only remember this happening once and I think that could have even been CMSF.

If you do need to get close which can be unavoidable in bocage I do the following things:

- crawl up to the bocage, short covered arc

- no other units near the spotter to attract attention

- after calling the arty "hide" and when the spotting rounds are due "unhide" to spot (staring the whole time from one bocage row to the next you still get spotted, too easily in my opinion).

Sometimes if time permits it isn't a bad idea to send a pair of scouts their first to see what happens but this does chew time and can just focus attention on the planned spotting location prematurely.

[GreenAsJade]

Totally agree ^^^ that's what I'm doing too. Still make me spit biscuits if my dude gets killed and I loose the battery... but at least this appropriate kind of precaution does indeed lessen the chance.

GaJ

[Mike Churchmoor]

I am just astonished that anyone can be arguing that its acceptable that a spotter casualty can take out a whole arty battery for the whole game, converting it into a random storm of spotting rounds in the process. It's not just a casualty in a "precious FOs who should be protected anyhow" that cause this. It's any unit that calls in arty.

+1. This is exactly the problem imo. I think most people playing CM:BN know the value of a FO and keeps them as safe as possible.

[winkelried]

+1. This is exactly the problem imo. I think most people playing CM:BN know the value of a FO and keeps them as safe as possible.

It isn't just a problem for the FO. In our Eurodeville PBEM the following happened to me:

I called 81mm mortar fire on the edge of the little forest with a platoon HQ. Then a lucky shot of your StuH 42 killed the platoon leader - the radio man escaped unscathed. But then: Even with the radio man - no way to abort the mission or the change it. Even the company CO and XO couldn't help. Then ranging started and I had already abandoned any hope for this mission. And then suddendly I had fire for effect - but still couldn't cancel the mission ...

[Erwin]

One problem with the FO is that it's often the one guy who is the observer who gets hit and the other two guys can't do squat. Also, the affected FO is not replaced in future scenarios in a campaign - just like HQ's which have lost their C2 capabilities are not replaced, nor does the affected platoon ever get C2 to its HQ ever again.