Silly Question?

[GreenAsJade]

You could chose to base your tactics on your real life experience of carrying a mortar, or you could chose to base them on the advice given by players about what works in game.

I'll give you a hint: players know what works in game. Direct fire mortars are deadly (or at least, they were pre 1.01)

GaJ

[Michael Emrys]

1. I remember my struggle to carry the baseplate to an 81mm mortar about 20 yards in ROTC summer camp in 1964. I'm not going to ask an electronic soldier to run (which is how they appear to move with a Quick command) a few hundred yards in the game carrying a 60mm mortar baseplate, even though the 60mm mortar baseplate may weigh about half as much.

Quite right. Running—even at Quick—will tire your men out very quickly. What I've hit on is to have them move at Quick for about 20 meters, then pause for 10 seconds, and then Quick move another 20 meters. That's more or less it for one turn. They get plenty of time to catch their breath and stay in Rested condition. BTW, the 20 meters I give here is actually variable. It can be as much as 30 meters in level dry hard ground, or much less if going uphill in muddy conditions. Moving through woods of any density will also tire them faster.

2. I expect my mortar units would be high priority targets for the German defenders. I don't want them exposed to direct German fire -- which is already deadly enough.

Right again. That's why you want your riflemen along with whatever else you can scrape up to be laying down as much suppressive fire on enemy positions as possible when you have to move in view of those positions.

4. There are already a lot of US targets moving toward the German positions. It seems unwise to add more targets, when I can keep the US mortars safe and able to engage German units anywhere on the map.

That's been my take as well thus far. But keep in mind that there may not be a spotter in position to direct the fire and who also has access to the mortars. And even when those conditions are met, it is a relatively slow process. Actually, my preferred way of rapidly putting HE on a position is to bring a few tanks along.

Michael

[MOSwas71331]

Quote:

"2. I expect my mortar units would be high priority targets for the German defenders. I don't want them exposed to direct German fire -- which is already deadly enough.

Right again. That's why you want your riflemen along with whatever else you can scrape up to be laying down as much suppressive fire on enemy positions as possible when you have to move in view of those positions."

Unfortunately, it's my US riflemen who get suppressed (and killed) by German fire. I haven't yet discovered how to prevent that as I advance them. You have to see the German positions to suppress them, and the stationary Germans see my moving riflemen first.

My Shermans sometimes fire off a few MG rounds at German targets, but only until incoming AT rounds or panzershreks knock them out.

I'm obviously not coordinating my units properly, but I can't figure out how to do that.

[c3k]

SPOILER ALERT***

MOSwas71331,

At the risk of giving conflicting advice, what I did was set up my mortars in the courtyard of the farmhouse near the US setup zone. I then placed the Company CO up in the top floor. He spotted for the mortars right below. That allowed effective spotting and firing on the far German positions.

In each of my play throughs, on Elite vs. AI, wego, I pushed on the US left. I would fire on "?" German locations with the mortar and MG's. After sufficient suppression, I would advance 1 up with 2 in support.

Hope that helps.

Ken

[Stitch]

Following up on Ken's advice, be sure to restrict the fire of the Coy CO to avoid giving his spotting position away. Being suppressed while directing fire is a sure way to waste time/rounds.

[stikkypixie]

SPOILER ALERT***

MOSwas71331,

At the risk of giving conflicting advice, what I did was set up my mortars in the courtyard of the farmhouse near the US setup zone. I then placed the Company CO up in the top floor. He spotted for the mortars right below. That allowed effective spotting and firing on the far German positions.

In each of my play throughs, on Elite vs. AI, wego, I pushed on the US left. I would fire on "?" German locations with the mortar and MG's. After sufficient suppression, I would advance 1 up with 2 in support.

Hope that helps.

Ken

What I did was setting up the mortars in the courtyard, made sure they were commanded by an HQ unit with a radio and use the HQ Sherman tank to call in fire missions from the front line. As long as you keep away from AT threats and buttoned up this is a safe way of calling artillery. I also used a ninja platoon HQ (with short cover arcs) as additional eyes.

[sburke]

I also used a ninja platoon HQ (with short cover arcs) as additional eyes.

Man I got to purchase me some ninja platoons.

[MOSwas71331]

One of the first things I tried was putting the weapons platoon leader on an upper floor to spot for his mortars in the courtyard below. When I checked his targeting lines, he couldn't see anything useful. Perhaps if a tall German looked over a hedgerow, the platoon leader might get a fleeting glimpse of the peeper. That didn't seem a worthwhile target for a mortar barrage; the guy would probably flee when a ranging shot landed anywhere near him.

[dieseltaylor]

But then if he fled from a hedgeline defence is thta not mission accomplished ... I mean in the actual sense, : )

Of course if you await for a firefight to develop you will have a definite area to draw your type of fire. You know the line of fire along a hedgerow so that anyone lurkng there will be seriously pissed off.

[C'Rogers]

When I checked his targeting lines, he couldn't see anything useful.

He personally might not make the spot, but other guys should. From his position he should be able to see most of the map. Once your other guys engage the German defense, have him call in the artillery.

[womble]

Unfortunately, it's my US riflemen who get suppressed (and killed) by German fire. I haven't yet discovered how to prevent that as I advance them. You have to see the German positions to suppress them, and the stationary Germans see my moving riflemen first.

Actually, you only have to suspect the german positions to suppress them. And only the mortars can address more than a very small section of the first field on the left. I'm a bit puzzled as to where you're moving troops that the germans can see them, and think that might be your foremost difficulty.

My Shermans sometimes fire off a few MG rounds at German targets, but only until incoming AT rounds or panzershreks knock them out.

You shouldn't be in range of shrecks on the left, and the firepower of a platoon on the right is enough to chase the OstBatallion troops out of the hedgerows pretty much on autopilot, so you shouldn't be troubled there, either. If you have infantry near your tanks, stationary behind cover, with the tank just poking its gun through a hedge, you should get at least some indication of where the ATG is when it fires to get a mortar stonk in/suppress it with your smallarms until you can get another tank to bring direct fire HE to bear.

I'm obviously not coordinating my units properly, but I can't figure out how to do that.

What I find works, in rough and probably partial outline, to get started. Assuming you are pretty confident that the first hedgerow doesn't have (significant) enemy in fighting position behind it

1. Give every unit a 20m circular cover arc as default
   
2. Get rid of the cover arcs on your rifle teams
   
3. Quick your rifle teams to 1 AP short of the hedge you're going to be calling home for the next few minutes. This is probably also the turn to call in a linear mortar strike along the next linear obstacle, if you can.
   
4. Slow your rifle teams up to the hedge, and give them a short cover arc. Keep support weapons, including tanks at least 1 AP back from the hedge for now. You don't want them being shot at by specialist weapons/while they're deploying.
   
5. Use area fire to begin suppressing likely enemy locations. That is: anywhere there's a "?" or anywhere you think there might've been a "?". If there are any spotted units, service them with some assigned fire. Your rifles work pretty well out to 500m; they're not "piss-ante two-twos" like modern ARs Opening fire this way will probably draw some more fire, and get you some spotted targets to concentrate on. Oh, when you're assigning 'speculative' area fire, you may want to try using "Target Light" for any element which has 'heavy' weapons like Bazookas or rifle grenades, or, once you get within what the AI considers 'effective range', you'll be firing those off at locations where you're not even sure there are any enemy.
   
6. When you start to get some idea of what you're up against, and you've got the attention of the enemy shooters, you can run out your MGs and direct-lay mortars and add their weight to the suppression barrage.
   
7. By this point, with blanket area fire salted with directed fire at those who pop their heads up, you're probably in a position to roll any armour up to your firing line to add their HE and MGs to the mix. Infantry ATR in range will probably have been spotted by your infantry, or at least suppressed by area fire, and if they pop their heads up to have a go at your armour, they'll probably get shot by the infantry.
   

If you can't get suppression on the enemy line with a full frontage of Garands, BAR, M1919s and tanks, then you should probably find another way.

[MOSwas71331]

You could chose to base your tactics on your real life experience of carrying a mortar, or you could chose to base them on the advice given by players about what works in game.

I'll give you a hint: players know what works in game. Direct fire mortars are deadly (or at least, they were pre 1.01)

GaJ

I want to use realistic actions. IF CM:BN considers a man militarily effective after he has run a 100 yard dash carrying a mortar baseplate, then enjoy using that tactic. I KNOW that even Arnold Schwartenegger and Jesse Ventura would need to rest after such an exertion, so I won't direct my GI mortar teams (probably with less imposing men than Arnold or Jesse) to try.

Other posters on this thread agree that it's not necessary to rush the mortars forward and can beat the AI defense while setting up the mortars near their starting positions. I seem to be the only person who can't.