BloodyBucket Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Just got spanked bad by a single German mortar firing blind at the start of a QB. I took thirty five casualties, mostly KIA/Incapacitated, when my WEGO ordered infantry got caught in the open by the mini barrage. The first couple rounds did about half the damage, and then the turn ended. I ordered everybody out of the area with FAST move orders, but right when the next turn started another round hit and the infantry squads went to ground and continued to take a pounding. I had another Company on top of the mid map objective by now, but my flanking force was, for all intents and useful purposes, toast. I decided to get some fast and satisfying 60mm revenge by having an FO team get to a spot where it could see...and the whole team is wiped out by a single round from a halftrack mouned 75mm gun from clear across the map. I'm now completely demoralized, much less my virtual battlegroup. I think for a moment on how I can salvage this mess, set up a hasty defense on the reverse slope and.... Nope. I decided that it jsut wasn't my battle and handed it to the AI via a ceasefire. If I was in charge of a real battle and it was only a meeting engagement, I'd take my dead and wounded and fall back, rather than see the other Company cut to pieces by a now superior German force, and since AFAIK there's no exiting, I couldn't see going through the motions of setting up a screen so the bulk of my forces could withdraw. The AI isn't the craftiest opponent, but every once in awhile even a blind AI squirrel finds a nut and drops enough HE on it to get a quick win. I was looking forward to what promised to be an interesting situation with my usual feel good victory over the AI in a meeting engagement, but I'm not mad at this "gamey tactic" that undid me before I got started. It was just my turn to be unlucky. Even when I get humbled, I admire the way this game rewards sound tactics but still has enough room for blind fate to have a say in what transpires. Anyway, am I right in thinking there is no way to leave a map once a QB starts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I just had the same thing happen to one of my platoons on the first turn, only it was by 105s I think, based on the amount of noise they made coming in. I haven't counted up all the dead and wounded yet, but it isn't going to be pretty. If I hadn't had the platoon pretty well spread out, it would have gotten them all. Like I said elsewhere, this new AI is sneaksy and evile. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Anyway, am I right in thinking there is no way to leave a map once a QB starts? I guess you can save at the end of every orders phase (including the first one) and if things go terminally pear shaped, you can go back and try something else. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Anyway, am I right in thinking there is no way to leave a map once a QB starts? Pretty much. I think the 'offering a ceasefire' solution you found is probably the only way to handle it. Making 'Exit' objectives meaningful in a QB that could be very variable in its parameters, on the same map, would take a lot of coding, and probably wouldn't be very satisfactory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ferrous Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 In my experiments with the scenario editor I've found that if a support target is painted for the AI it will hit it almost immediately with the best stuff it's got. It seems that the extent of the pounding the target takes is dependent on just how many target areas are designated as the AI will 'reserve' some stuff for the next target. When designing for CM1 I frequently had off-map artillery assets come on as reinforcements even on turn 2, but just to prevent such 'gamey' pre-emptive strikes if the opponent's set-up area was significantly constrained or blindingly obvious. Designers should ensure that they do either keep back artillery assets a few turns or allow sufficient map space for the opponent to deploy with some stealth and spread such that a first second pounding would be more luck than judgement and the whole arsenal could be wasted on an empty field. Of course, in a QB there's no option for reinforcements so artillery, if any, is there from the start. Which map was it, BB? I'd like to take a look at it. I guess in your case, BB, you just happened to sit on a target zone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 You'll find out soon enough that in most of the larger engagements the QB AI will toss a few random barrages in the beginning (and only the beginning) of the scenario. I sort of wish that BFC would stagger the incomming times, as they are so predictable as of now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 After having played one or two quick battles I simply stopped moving the first turn. Most of the time there will be a barrage or more coming in for no good reason other than adding some ambience. After all, once you know it will happen it´d be stupid to move and my willing suspension of disbelief just cannot cope with something as crude as these first turn "AI support missions". I wish the designers would just dispense with them and let the AI sort out the artillery itself. Something it can do quite well at times. M. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 We do need to have some more randomness on whether the AI will open up on a particular zone right away or hold back more stuff for using later in the game. As has been noted, it's a little too eager to take advantage of the pre plotted option. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statisoris Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Oops, Steve posted while I was writing, O well Yeah, when I play against AI, I very rarely place any units in the yellowish objective areas. At present, if the AI has any artillery in their roster, these areas get plastered 95% of the time by immediate barrages at the very start of the game. I wish there was much more variability to this start of game barrage behavior. Maybe something like the rough crappy example below :/ Choices made for each artillery asset in inventory Start of game barrage? = [Yes,No] ---- If = No, AI conserves artillery assets for later use, nothing happens at game start. ---- If = Yes, Will the objective area be targeted? [Yes, No] If = Yes, The terrain objective center is chosen as the target. If = No, the game picks a random area on the general enemy side of the map. If = Yes, What is the mission and duration combo? [medium quick, heavy maximum...] If = Yes, How accurate is the fire? [spot on, slightly off, way off...] If = Yes, Will there be a mission time delay set [Yes, No] If = No, Then the mission begins on game start in normal fassion If = Yes, How long of a time delay? [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,..., mins] I'm just saying, If you know for almost certain that all of your units that you just set up in that area are going to be creamed, then why would you want to place any unit that you prize in that super danger zone to get wiped out on turn 1? Because in the real world the guys didn't know they were going to be wiped out!, na, we need more variability so these artificial, self control decisions don't have to be made. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ferrous Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 As noted above, I think this could be a significant drawback in QBs with pre-designated target zones. As I said, the solution for avaoidance in a custom designed scenario is to have the artillery asset arrive as a reinforcement. This also works for off-map artillery which can be brought in as an off-map reinforcement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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