Are AI 'Suggestions' using the same process as AI purchases?

[John Malcolm]

Does clicking on 'Suggestions' in the unit purchasing part of quick battles use the same decision making processes as when the AI purchases units (for itself)? If not then I've perhaps wasted some time.

I was clicking away on that button to get a rough idea of what the AI was buying when a pattern started to form. I chose an Attack (Large) with a German attacker with Mix for force type, Rarity on Strict. I then started taking notes of what was being spend on what. I broke things down roughly into: Infantry, Armour, Artillery, Guns (other types of onboard guns like AT or Inf), and a Miscellaneous section which seemed mainly to to contain small independent MG teams (a great way to get rid of a small handful of points at the end).

I only ran the test 22 times, more would have been better, but I wanted to play The AI likes its armour.

I think a couple of things may have to be considered here:

* When playing a Quick Battle versus the AI, I'd imagine the majority of players wouldn't want to purchase the enemy units themselves. They simply don't wan't to know in advance what they'll be up against.

* Choosing a 'Combat Force' of Infantry, Mechanised Infantry or Armour for the AI means they don't know exactly what they'll be facing, but they'll have a reasonable idea, and have a good idea what they can disregard. They are not going to be shocked by the sudden appearance of a Panzer or two with Infantry as the 'Combat Force' for example.

* This leaves the Combat Force of 'Mix' which works pretty well for humans to purchase with, as it allows the kind of ad hoc formations that can be flung together for operations. We can choose a balanced force - perhaps mainly infantry stiffened by a handful of tanks, tank destroyers or assault guns or similar.

I think what we need is the additional of a couple more 'Combat Force' options - mainly to narrow down the AI's picking - something like 'Mixed (Infantry heavy)' and 'Mixed (Armour heavy)'. Having an all armour force with absolutely no infantry support whatsoever just seems bonkers. See the attached pie chart thingie.

[edit] Oops: Forum has decided to downsize my attachment. Here's a more readable version:

[John Malcolm]

Is anyone else finding results like these when playing QBs vs the AI in larger battles? The AI is a poor substitute for a human opponent - but can be valuable for testing tactics and techniques or just purchases then you're not familiar with.

I'd love to hear an asnwer to my question though: Are the same routines used by the AI for purchases as when the AI is allowed to suggest purchases for a human in a QB?

[John Malcolm]

Are the same routines used by the AI for purchases as when the AI is allowed to suggest purchases for a human in a QB?

Interesting question John... you don't mind if I call you by your first name do you? I feel as though I know you!

I'd love an answer to this... is everyone one else too busy playing human opponents? or enjoying the fact that you can assume the AI will spend the majority of it's points on armoured vehicles and buying suitable countermeasures.

[Other Means]

I'd assumed so. Let me have a look in the morning when my brain works.

Thanks John.

[Narses]

Hi John,

I posted something on QB elsewhere but I've done some testing more on small battles usually with mix and find it a bit more even inf to armor. I'll go back and look at it.

My complaint is the "Rarity" selection. I don't see why its needed. Points govern the force. If you select a Panther you'll pay for it.

But your point is my point - QB should permit any purchase within the points available so the plyr can play with what ge wants for tactics testing, examination of various combinations or whatever. As in CMx1.

Sometimes I get really strange combinations in "all armor" with 7 or 8 PSW222 (production ended in 43) and a PzIV and a V. Or lots of Stugs when the count of Stugs in Jun 44 at least was around 150 versus very roughly 700 IV's and 700 V's. But that's not the point. Just let the plyr pick what he wants to run whatever exercise he wants.

[Vanir Ausf B]

But your point is my point - QB should permit any purchase within the points available so the plyr can play with what ge wants for tactics testing, examination of various combinations or whatever. As in CMx1.

That has nothing to with what John is saying. His post is about AI force purchasing.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Is anyone else finding results like these when playing QBs vs the AI in larger battles?

Yes. I ran the same test you did, except it was for a Huge QB meeting engagement. I ran it only 10 times, but my results were very similar to yours. In 5 of those iterations the AI purchased an all armor force. In 4 other iterations is choose some infantry, but still purchased at least 20 tanks. In 1 iteration it chose all infantry, but it was mechanized infantry fully mounted on halftracks.

IMO the AI autopick is broken without a Combined Arms option to force the AI to spread out its points. As it stands if you want a truly "mixed" AI force you will have to pick it yourself.

[Narses]

Does clicking on 'Suggestions' in the unit purchasing part of quick battles use the same decision making processes as when the AI purchases units (for itself)? If not then I've perhaps wasted some time.

I was clicking away on that button to get a rough idea of what the AI was buying when a pattern started to form. I chose an Attack (Large) with a German attacker with Mix for force type, Rarity on Strict. I then started taking notes of what was being spend on what. I broke things down roughly into: Infantry, Armour, Artillery, Guns (other types of onboard guns like AT or Inf), and a Miscellaneous section which seemed mainly to to contain small independent MG teams (a great way to get rid of a small handful of points at the end).

I only ran the test 22 times, more would have been better, but I wanted to play The AI likes its armour.

I think a couple of things may have to be considered here:

* When playing a Quick Battle versus the AI, I'd imagine the majority of players wouldn't want to purchase the enemy units themselves. They simply don't wan't to know in advance what they'll be up against.

* Choosing a 'Combat Force' of Infantry, Mechanised Infantry or Armour for the AI means they don't know exactly what they'll be facing, but they'll have a reasonable idea, and have a good idea what they can disregard. They are not going to be shocked by the sudden appearance of a Panzer or two with Infantry as the 'Combat Force' for example.

* This leaves the Combat Force of 'Mix' which works pretty well for humans to purchase with, as it allows the kind of ad hoc formations that can be flung together for operations. We can choose a balanced force - perhaps mainly infantry stiffened by a handful of tanks, tank destroyers or assault guns or similar.

I think what we need is the additional of a couple more 'Combat Force' options - mainly to narrow down the AI's picking - something like 'Mixed (Infantry heavy)' and 'Mixed (Armour heavy)'. Having an all armour force with absolutely no infantry support whatsoever just seems bonkers. See the attached pie chart thingie.

[edit] Oops: Forum has decided to downsize my attachment. Here's a more readable version:

Vanir is correct I missed your point as I was so involved with my own issues with plyr selecting and further I have only been selecting "small" as I noted.

I find "mix" pretty good although I've not charted it out. My mixed force generally seems to run up against a mixed force. My only armor force as well fights only armor so I suspected that The AI selected whatever I selected.