Mac G3 & G4 Lockup Philosophy

[Van_Gogh]

The problem is well known, the game locks up, mouse pointer still moving, the sound still playing but U can´t do a thing except restart the computer manually. This problem has been adressed in several postings before but it seems to me that we´ve left the exact sciences and entered the realm of speculative and experimental philosophy because no one solution seems to work for everyone.

Personally I´ve tried the usual, disabled the backside cache (powerlogix cache-disabler) but that didn´t work. In fact powerlogix tech support recommends against using that software on imacs, no matter what model (I run a imac DV se [graphite] G3 400mhz 128MBRAM 9.0.4). Increasing the memory allocation to CM didn´t seem to make any diffrence either. I tried turning off VM - nope that didn´t work either. Lockups occur infrequently but the do occur, sometimes in the middle of a film. Then U have to restart from your latest save and that might very well result in a completley diffrent outcome than the one U were observing (ie. U didn´t hit that tank that U just destroyed with a lucky shot after all) since CM recalculates the resolution

I´ve also tried to disable the sleep modes by adjusting the energy saver panel to no avail. Is there anything I´ve missed??? Any known extension conflicts besides the well known norton thing? Can´t bigtime release a G3 and G4 patch adressing this problem, a lot of people uses G3:s and G4:s. What the hell is left for me to do in order to avoid these tiresome lockups???

[Schrullenhaft]

"...we´ve left the exact sciences and entered the realm of speculative and experimental philosophy..."

Welcome to the world of personal computers.

Since not every person with a G3 or a G4 is having a problem or even the same problem, it would be impossible to make some magic patch to fix "a problem" in CM. CM runs on G3/G4s; not everyone has to disable the backside cache (it just happens to work for some gamers).

Other than the Norton Disklight there is no maintained list of "incompatible" extensions. The problems seem to vary based on the machine, the OS and whatever other software has been installed, etc. Some people have had problems with some of the ATI extensions, but if they're the latest software then I don't know why (I believe OS 9.0.4/9.1 has the latest ATI display drivers).

Do you have any USB devices hooked up (other than the keyboard or mouse) ? Do you have the latest drivers and firmware patches for your iMac ? Are you running any other programs in the background while you play CM ?

What version of OpenGL do you have loaded ? The 1.2.1 (?) version that comes with the 1.12 patch is highly recommended for your iMac (you're probably already using it).

What kind of internet connection do you have ? I've heard of some services causing problems with some Macs.

[Van_Gogh]

Thanks for your time. Actually I don´t run open GL 1.2.1, I run 1.1.3. The reason is that the 1.2.1 can´t be installed on the swedish mac os which I´m running. I guess the update will be available for us swedes soon. Might the lockup problem be related to the fact that I don´t use the latest open GL? I thought that open GL just corrected black / white text probs. which I btw never have experienced, the graphics in CM looks just great.

Besides mouse and keyboard I have a USB FDD, that´s all. I´ve checked the updates and I´ve got it all, except open GL 1.2.1 which is unavailabe for swedish mac os at the moment.

I have a modem connection using the built in 56k modem. I never play CM while being connected though, I just play PBEM and vs AI. I don´t run other programs in the background while playing CM. Guess I should wait and hope that the swedish version of open GL 1.2.1 finally will cure these lockups of mine or?

[Schrullenhaft]

Yes, the OpenGL update primarily addresses text issues within CM. It probably won't fix your lock up issues. It's interesting that the old US English version of OpenGL is insufficient for text display (with the Rage 128 Pros) with CM, while the Swedish version has no problems.

Other than modifying most of the text in the OS, I'm not sure what Apple does to their International editions of the OS. I guess that there's some text/character specific issues with all sorts extensions, etc.

Your modem connection should be fine. Some high speed internet providers in the US have some problems with their Mac software. In your case this isn't an issue (most dial up connections shouldn't be a problem at all).

Do you have any non-standard hardware added/hooked up to your iMac (and any requisite extensions/control panels for it) ?

How large of a memory partition have you dedicated to CM ? What third-party extensions and control panels do you have loaded ?

I'm not sure what to recommend for system checking utilities. I think that this is a freeware program (with a more capable retail version available). See if zapping the PRAM (a near-ancient trick that probably isn't as successful with the newer Macs) or rebuilding your desktop can somehow remotely help your problem. TechTool should be a little better at this than the standard Apple methods of performing these functions (hopefully it should work with Swedish OS 9.0.4):

Micromat's Techtool (go to the Techtool item on the left-hand list):

http://www.micromat.com/

[aikidorat]

I've noticed that CM locks my 233 G3 up every time that I have Netscape open - if I dont quit out of Netscape, CM locks in the middle of the movie, or plotting a turn.

If I quit N before starting CM, I'm fine. Go figure.

as an aside, this behavior only started with OS 9.1 AND the latest version of CM. I did not have this occur prior to this.

and, as luck would have it, I belive I updated both at the same time/day, so I dont know the root cause, and havent had the desire to debug it.

hopefully you'll find a solution, annoying as it may be.

best,

dave

------------------

History is made at night

[Van_Gogh]

I´m trying to be systematic about this problem. I´ve never allocated more than 80 MBRAM to CM, ie double the recommended amount. Can more than that make any diffrence? I also have some evidence, though not conclusive, that lockups occur mostly in big battles, whith a lot of units and lead in the air and when I jerk the camera around observing the action from diffrent viewpoints. I´ve now increased the memory allocation to 120MBRAM and "are waiting for the next lockup" so to speak. when (if?) it occur I´ll move on and zap the pram.

I´don´t have much third party extensions. Some extensions are for my macally mouse (I don´t use a mouse from apple), and I have microsoft extensions coming from the office 98 package, including the microsoft manager which generates a nice contol panel up in the right corner of the screen where U can switch between favorite programs etc. Might these extension cause conflicts?

[Schrullenhaft]

Your locks up seem to happen when the CPU is the busiest. I've seen situations on a PC while maneuvering around the battlefield during playback that has caused stuttering and pauses. It's at these moments when the CPU and video card are pushed their hardest that a potential lockup is occuring for you.

Increasing the memory partition (as you've already done) is probably the best bet here, though the amount of memory may seem excessive. It would be interesting to find out if the lockups didn't occur if little-to-no maneuvering was done during playback of those large scenarios.

Possibly disabling the Microsoft Office Manager extensions/control panel may help a bit (but most likely it will have a negligible effect). Are there any newer extensions for your MacAlly mouse ?

[Van_Gogh]

Well now it seems as if my lockup problems is over and that I can end my excursion into the philosophy of homecomputers and start playing CM instead

I want to share my solution of the prob. with my mac friends out there. I tried a lot of things; memory allocation, turning VM off, turning some control panels off, turning off the energy saver etc. but still got annoying lockups. What finally fixed the prob in my case was one of two things (or both in combination, that might be in combination with previous measures of mine as well, ie always increase the memory allocation since that seems to minimize lockups, check that U have the latest extensions for your mouse [i did not, thanks for reminding me Schrullenhaft] but I still got lockups until I did [1] and [2] as well). 1) I changed my desktop picture from a 3D pic. to a standard 2D pic. 2) I trashed the preferences for CM and forced the game to create new ones. I have not experienced a single lockup ever since

[ 04-08-2001: Message edited by: Van_Gogh ]

[ 04-08-2001: Message edited by: Van_Gogh ]

[Maximus]

I don't know, is it me or does anybody find it strange that CM was designed on a Mac G4 and that it is the Macs that are having all of these lock-up problems?

Things to make you say, "Hmmm"

Maybe if Mac didn't bring out a new version of their OS every 2 weeks (speaking facetiously of course) then maybe Mac users could maintain a constant setup for more than 2 weeks at a time.

I'm sure glad I have a PC. Don't knock Windows and DirectX until you try them.

[Ericfoos]

Look for an extension called ObjectSupportLib. If it is in the extensions folder, CHUCK IT! The functionality that it provided was rolled into the system file around OS 8 but unfortunately, some installers don't know that and it gets installed anyways. I've seen Mac's act wacky and removing it solved the problem.

http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n60184

[Baboon2]

Maximus, AFAIK, there are no lockups on Macs using Voodoo cards. So, maybe your negativity is misplaced.

-- Ray

[aikidorat]

after trashing my prefs file and starting CM, I've noticed the following:

1. no more lock ups!

2. sounds appear to be cleaner

3. graphics appear to be a bit better.

2 and 3 are subjective, but I swear I noticed a difference. Doesnt make sense to me, or does it.. CM looks at hardware, memory, etc, to determine settings, and since I got CM I've added memory, changed stuff, etc, so perhaps it does make sense.

anyway, if you are having troubles with lockups, try trashing the prefs file and starting CM. Definately helps the stability.

thanks!

dave

[Madmatt]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus:

Things to make you say, "Hmmm"

Don't knock Windows and DirectX until you try them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same applies to you with Macs big guy and I warned you before. Stay the hell outa my Tech Forum if you having nothing to add. I am serious Dave, the warnings are growing tiresome, don't make me pull that trigger.

Madmatt

[KRS321]

So how does one go about allocating more memory to CM on a Mac. Also, is this preference file thing only for PC's or for Macs's also?

Thanks

[Gyrene]

I've tried CM on two different Macs, my own Rev D 333mhz iMac and my work's 400mhz slot loader iMac.

Now on my home system is runs fine, never had any crashes/freezes/weird smoke etc.

On the system at work, I've had no problems UNTIL I made a full install of the game. The previous time I did the minimum install and it ran fine, but with the full install the game did freeze a couple of times.

What I think is happening is that Hard Drive Sleep is causing the problem....I have it off completely on my home mac, and its on the system at work, that's why I think there was no problems playing with the minimum install, as there was a lot of data being acsessed from the CD-ROM instead of the hard drive.

I recommend that everyone disable the hard drive sleep option from the energy saver control panel.

Gyrene

[kmead]

Making CMBO run more reliably is usually fairly easy.

I assume you are running OS9.04 or 9.1. If you have 9.0 I would upgrade to 9.04, 9.04 is generally a stable OS and OS 9.1 has been greatly improved, to install the latest version you will likely also have to update the firmware using an installer from Apple. At the moment I would just upgrade to 9.04. In any case, OS9xx uses alot of ram, if you don't have 256mb of real ram, I would buy some. It can be very inexpensive and take less than two minutes to install. OS 9.04 alone is using up most of the ram you have, leaving very little for any apps. I bought some PC133 256MB chips recently as low as $89 at Best Buy. WWW.Ramseeker.com is a great place to buy ram at the lowest prices. Before you buy more RAM, get a guarantee that it will work with Apple's ROM upgrades. There have been alot of horror stories of some RAM not working because of timing tolerance issue once you do an upgrade.

The first thing I would do is shut off virtual ram as it can be problematic. I would also go into the preferences folder in the system folder and toss the CMBO preferences file and let the program make a new one.

To adjust the memory allocation for CMBO, hold the control key down and click once on the application icon, a window will open and drag down to memory. Leave the lower number alone and double the larger number if you have enough ram.

To trash your preferences, open the system folder, find the Preferences folder, open it and take the Combat Mission Bynd Ovr Prefs and put it into the trash. When CMBO opens again it will make a new Prefs file.

I would run the latest video drivers Open GL 1.2.1 which come with the latest CMBO download, they fix the text problems that have plagued some MacOS users. BTS put them in for a reason .

Some people have had trouble when Netscape is open at the same time. I run Outlook Express 5.1, IE5.02, and CMBO all at the same time with no problems (lets me immediately play out PBEMs and surf the board )

Van_Gogh did the following: 1) changed the desktop picture from a 3D pic. to a standard 2D pic. 2) trashed the preferences for CM and forced the game to create new ones and has been running fine since.

Gyrenes suggestion about sleep in general is an excellent thing to do, I have also found a number of problems with sleep modes. Sleep is controlled by the Energy Saver control panel (found in the Control Panels folder under the Apple Menu) click on Show Details button to configure more details. When running CMBO you will likely want to run with Hard Disk sleep set to Never.

My primary suggestion is to install more ram, this tends to be the single largest problem in running the game. If that doesn't resolve your issues there are a number of other things that can be done, they are just a bit more involved. Good luck and keep us informed.

OOPS replied to the wrong forum, ah well now its double posted

[ 04-14-2001: Message edited by: kmead ]