Crew suddenly goes walkabout

[umlaut]

I finally found a flaw in CMBN - and a big one at that

In the training mission game I order my Sherman to hunt forward down the road - and the crew decides to leave the tank and do this on foot. WTF?? The tank hasn´t even been under fire, so it is no "auto bail"

I guess I must have hit the "K" key when in the "special" menu (bail out) instead of in the movement menu (hunt).

BUT NO MATTER WHAT I DO I´M UNABLE TO CANCEL THIS??

EDIT:

Perhaps I should elaborate a bit on this: I - as always - play WEGO. And as always I save the game just before hitting the red action button, exactly to be able to catch silly mistakes - like this one. But when I reload the game - THE CREW CONTINUES TO LEAVE THE TANK NO MATTER WHAT I DO.

I´ve just read Ken Tout´s brilliant book "Tank!" and know how incredibly hot and unpleasant an environment a Sherman can be. But I somehow doubt that BFC has just simulated the urge for the crew to catch a bit of fresh air?

I really don´t get this???

[womble]

I finally found a flaw in CMBN - and a big one at that

In the training mission game I order my Sherman to hunt forward down the road - and the crew decides to leave the tank and do this on foot. WTF?? The tank hasn´t even been under fire, so it is no "auto bail"

I guess I must have hit the "K" key when in the "special" menu (bail out) instead of in the movement menu (hunt).

BUT NO MATTER WHAT I DO I´M UNABLE TO CANCEL THIS??

Seems you've accurately diagnosed the cause, and correctly determined that there's no post-hoc rememdy for it. Shame that changed betwen SF and BN (IIRC in SF, a Bail command set a waypoint for the crew to bail, which could be backspaced). The only solution (other than simply taking more care, which will only reduce, not eliminate the problem) is to move away from the 'relative' command arrangement. The 'alternate' hotkeys file doesn't have Bail mapped to a keystroke at all.

[WineCape]

Order the crew back (by deleting their order path) into their vehicle, if it's not knocked out, and there are enough crew left to command the Sherman. You might have accidentally used the "bail" command. Tank crews can bail and re-crew their own tanks. Not so with AT gun crews.

Or,

your crew, though the tank is still working, are panicked (=loss of control over the crew) and they bailed automatically in this state, due to (multiple) penetrations that have not yet knocked their tank out.

Better solution then mentioned by womble above: Use/press the spacebar to issue commands to your units. Personally, I find this the best method to give orders in CMBN.

[TrailApe]

Have you tried offering them cheese?

[Medex]

They probably got bored with the battle and went looking for some wine and women.

[PondScum]

I had one crew bail out en masse after a single turret penetration. They proceeded to run halfway across the map in a panicked state before calming down. Finally I got them back under control, sneaked and sprinted them through the fighting, and re-embarked the tank some 10 minutes after they'd abandoned it. Victory!

That's when I found out that the single turret penetration had knocked out the main gun, coax, optics, and gyrostabilizer...

[umlaut]

Thanks for the answers. Your replies came while I was editing my post.

@WineCape: As I wrote the tank hasn´t even been under fire, so it is not a case of panick at all.

Let me see if I get this right: There is NO way I can change an accidental "bail out" order - EVEN IF I RELOAD THE GAME?

If that is the case, I´ll call it a serious flaw.

[WineCape]

Thanks for the answers. Your replies came while I was editing my post.

@WineCape: As I wrote the tank hasn´t even been under fire, so it is not a case of panick at all.

Let me see if I get this right: There is NO way I can change an accidental "bail out" order - EVEN IF I RELOAD THE GAME?

If that is the case, I´ll call it a serious flaw.

Well, if I accidentally shoot you, reloading my gun will not bring you back to life.

As said, get into the habit of using the SPACEBAR if you are that concerned about accidentally pressing the wrong key. It's easier using spacebar then fiddling with the remap button txt files. To be honest, it took my brain 2 days to move away from using the 'automatic' relative command button keys while testing CMBN. Now I never use the relative command keys. And I never see my crew accidentally bail.

Regards,

Charl Theron

[Erik Springelkamp]

Let me see if I get this right: There is NO way I can change an accidental "bail out" order - EVEN IF I RELOAD THE GAME?

If that is the case, I´ll call it a serious flaw.

I would call it a minor flaw, as it is the result of a mistake you make yourself.

And it is in the same category as:

- no immediate undo split team (I wanted an AT team, now it is split in fireteams)

- no undo for a Acquire special AT weapon, or the last batch of ammo

We just have to live with it until they get their turn in the ToDo list.

[womble]

Let me see if I get this right: There is NO way I can change an accidental "bail out" order - EVEN IF I RELOAD THE GAME?

If that is the case, I´ll call it a serious flaw.

'Pends where you reload it to... I've started saving a 'replay' for each minute, as well as intermediate 'giving orders' saves (in case; my play is pretty bitty ATM) and a 'about to press go' save. If you hit 'bail' and go back to a save before you did, they should still be in their vehicle.

[womble]

Better solution then mentioned by womble above: Use/press the spacebar to issue commands to your units. Personally, I find this the best method to give orders in CMBN.

Better for you, perhaps. I personally hate the f'in' spacebar (yes, yes, I know there's no 'f' in spacebar ) menu and think the direct keys are far, far better.

[umlaut]

I would call it a minor flaw, as it is the result of a mistake you make yourself.

Well, I believe that a hotkey system that invites these kinds of mistakes IS flawed. Especially when there is no way to remedy the mistake.

And it is in the same category as:

- no immediate undo split team (I wanted an AT team, now it is split in fireteams)

- no undo for a Acquire special AT weapon, or the last batch of ammo

I don´t think two (or even three) wrongs make a right.

We just have to live with it until they get their turn in the ToDo list.

Well, actually I think I´ll check out the alternate hotkeys - rather than live with this. Thank God for modders :-) - and thanks for the hint, Womble

[Erik Springelkamp]

Well, actually I think I´ll check out the alternate hotkeys - rather than live with this. Thank God for modders

the hotkeys file was created by Battlefront, not by modders.

[Erik Springelkamp]

Well, I believe that a hotkey system that invites these kinds of mistakes IS flawed. Especially when there is no way to remedy the mistake.

Yes, a minor flaw is a flaw.

I don't know what you want to say with this statement, because we already agreed that it was a flaw.

[umlaut]

Yes, a minor flaw is a flaw.

I don't know what you want to say with this statement, because we already agreed that it was a flaw.

OK. I misunderstood you: It seemed to me that you were saying that the mistake was all mine. Sorry.

the hotkeys file was created by Battlefront, not by modders.

And God for BFC too :-)

[WineCape]

Better for you, perhaps. I personally hate the f'in' spacebar (yes, yes, I know there's no 'f' in spacebar ) menu and think the direct keys are far, far better.

Each to his own. The reason I find it better then using the relative keys:

I'm right handed. I kick left, as certain opponents can attest. I use my mouse, obviously, on the right side of my computer. On the right side of my laptop is my keypad numbers. I love playing CMBN with both hands (**cough**, this just doesn't sound right ....). Therefor, I don't want to release my mouse hand to press a relative key, and then move it back to the rodent again. Why? My left hands does buggerall.

So I 'wired' my brain to learn to use my left hand, which is hovering close to the SPACEBAR anyway. Plus I hate to click/press an extra click/button and change the relative command groups to go into that specific group of commands, as I cannot be bothered to memorize yet another set of shortcut keyboard keys.

Plus using Spacebar will minimize for sure the mistake of pressing the bail key while inside the wrong command group. Easy to occur once you start fiddling with different unit commands inside various command groups.

Thus, reasons to my madness.

It seemed to me that you were saying that the mistake was all mine.

Heh, you did press the wrong button, carelessly, of course, not deliberately. AFAIK the AI does not press buttons on your behalf Anyway, seeing that posters here offered solution(s) to this minor annoyance, all is good I gather.

[womble]

Each to his own. The reason I find it better then using the relative keys:

I'm right handed. I kick left, as certain opponents can attest. I use my mouse, obviously, on the right side of my computer. On the right side of my laptop is my keypad numbers. I love playing CMBN with both hands (**cough**, this just doesn't sound right ....). Therefor, I don't want to release my mouse hand to press a relative key, and then move it back to the rodent again. Why? My left hands does buggerall.

So I 'wired' my brain to learn to use my left hand, which is hovering close to the SPACEBAR anyway. Plus I hate to click/press an extra click/button and change the relative command groups to go into that specific group of commands, as I cannot be bothered to memorize yet another set of shortcut keyboard keys.

Plus using Spacebar will minimize for sure the mistake of pressing the bail key while inside the wrong command group. Easy to occur once you start fiddling with different unit commands inside various command groups.

Thus, reasons to my madness.

Whereas (I offer, gentle reader, in case others have similar game histories and preferences and my find my experiences informative ) I've largely been playing MMOs for the past few years, with many more keybinds than CM will even allow and can touch type, so my left hand is very busy indeed *cough*. Mousey view management and selection, and keyboard direct commands (none of this relative nonsense!) mean I can operate with fewer clicks/presses (select a waypoint, change the previous leg's movement style, hide 'em and start a covered arc is 4 operations rather than 7 (cos of the interlaced spacebar hits) and I don't keep covering up my view with a menu I have to click out of if I change my mind.

That's the method in my madness

I do agree that, inadequate as it is to my preferred style of HMI, the spacebar menu is better than relative keybinds, which plain suck, for any number of valid ergonomical reasons.