noxnoctum Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I know this would require a lot of work so I wouldn't expect to see it for a long time, but I still thought I'd throw it out there. It'd be really nice if you could order your squad to be in a "crouch" or "stand up" mode or maybe just have it mixed... I can't tell you how many times in CMSF my infantry squad while on "Quick" would be able to see the enemy and fire on them, however the instant I canceled the movement order or they reached their waypoint they hit the dirt (as they should) and could no longer see the enemy. Now... MOST of the time that's GREAT that they do that automatically with no input from me, but it would be really really nice if we could FORCE a squad to crouch/stand up from their current position. One good example of how useful this would be is for supporting suppressing elements... a lot of times if I stick a squad on a little ridgeline or something only a third of the squad will be able to fire, and only sporadically at that because their view isn't that great. I'd like to be able to have them all crouched/standing up depending on the situation. Now infantry already do this automatically while in trenches (unless they're getting shot at a lot), so perhaps that code could be used? But what do I know, I'm no programmer. Anyways... just a thought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Over the years I've come to see CM's preference for TAC AI being as automated as possible but this would be helpful every damn time in high crop fields. The idea that the pixel troops when ordered would stand or crounch more often, and maybe for longer sounds like a best fit to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euri Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I belong to those that I prefer automated TAC AI. If I want this kind of micromanaged squad control I would play Arma2. On the other hand I would welcome three improvements in TAC AI: (a) A move command to use roads (paved or dirt only) ( An improvement on how AFV handle turns © Be able to order formations (d) a kind of synchronization mechanism for waypoints. In other words to be able to group one waypoint of the path of each unit and have all units of a group start moving to each of their next waypoints only after each unit has reach the synchronised WP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeps Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I was getting frustrated with this just this week, but I think I discovered a partial solution. Assign your squads short movement orders and then place a pause (say 1 minute) on each waypoint. They will not go to ground when they pause. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I was getting frustrated with this just this week, but I think I discovered a partial solution. Assign your squads short movement orders and then place a pause (say 1 minute) on each waypoint. They will not go to ground when they pause. Wow, will try that at the weekend. Do they drop if fired on? Euri: all good ideas, c and d would be higher up on my wish list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 I was getting frustrated with this just this week, but I think I discovered a partial solution. Assign your squads short movement orders and then place a pause (say 1 minute) on each waypoint. They will not go to ground when they pause. Haha SWEET... I'm gonna have to try this ASAP. Thanks for info!! EDIT: Tried it out, it indeed works. You can actually use the indefinite pause and it still works so you don't have to keep "pausing" over and over. One trick with it though is that your guys will (more or less) stop EXACTLY where they are, including facing when you order the pause. So you want to be sure they're moving in the direction you want them to face when you order it. I really think this little work-around should be stickied... I know for me it was one of the most irritating issues... even more so than not having moveable waypoints (but on the upside we can now give fire orders from them which is very handy) BTW, this should be a "durh" question, but does each individual soldier's position affect his accuracy? If so by how much? Anyone calculated this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 You should be able to use the FACE command to orient your pixeltruppen to face the desired direction at each waypoint. I can't see why bother using the "Indefinite PAUSE" since since there is no command delays to start em up again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeps Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 If you don't give them a pause they go to ground, which is what people are trying to avoid (rather than any command delays, which as you say are not there). I hadn't tried just setting a permanent pause at the waypoint, noxnoctum has added a useful addition to the technique I suggested - this way you don't have to have them moving around every 90 seconds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 You should be able to use the FACE command to orient your pixeltruppen to face the desired direction at each waypoint. I can't see why bother using the "Indefinite PAUSE" since since there is no command delays to start em up again. Yes but after you issue the pause they will ignore any face command (because they're on pause). So it's easier IMO just to have them move in the direction you want them to face and use the pause command as a sort of "hold position" command. And like the guy above said the whole point of using pause is to avoid them hitting the dirt (like if you're in a huge cornfield or whatever with a vastly superior force trying to hunt down one or two half dead squads... or if you want your men just to have better visibility at the cost of cover of being more exposed---usually what I want for my suppressing units during an assault) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 "If you don't give them a pause they go to ground." I presume you do not mean that they HIDE? I guess I hadn't picked up the subtlety of "going to ground" vs HIDE. Interesting stuff. Will have to try the above suggestions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeps Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 That's right, they don't hide, they just hit the deck. This is particularly annoying in long grass! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I don't find the TAC AI too bad with the stances, but on occasion do see the troops do some stupid stuff. Playing not long ago I had some troops in a building who were all taking a knee, but one dude decided he wanted to stand up. I’m yelling at the screen "Get down you dummy, you're going to get shot!" I no sooner got the words out, when he did get shot. I guess this was to simulate not all people are as bright as you would hope. I see where the request is coming from, and certainly see where it could be of use at certain times when you want to make sure the troops don't do something stupid like my dummy that got shot. The problem with wanting to incorporate more commands is where to fit it in the UI? There are just so many hotkeys to go around and it seems rather full as is. I think as more tweaking of the TAC AI takes place, by the developers less guys will be standing at times when they ought not to be, and will take more common sense stances as situation dictates. All in all though I think the TAC AI for the game is better than most I have played. I do not ever see it being perfect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 It's not really something that can be handled by the TAC AI. Because in some situations you might want your guys to stay down (but not "hide") in the tall grass. Other situations you don't want them to. It's entirely situational to the level where no AI in the world could "guess" your intentions, unless it was on some super computer with like months of data collected from your playstyle or something... even then though... Anyways we got a not too troublesome workaround now so this isn't a big concern of mine anymore. (thanks again teeps!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Well I have been trying the permanent PAUSE order and I can't see any difference from a regular pause or simply the end of movement waypoint. What is it you are looking at?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeps Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 The way that I know works is this: 1) Select a squad (or other formation, but just a bunch of guys) 2) Issue them more than one waypoint, preferably close together. 3) Before they reach a waypoint click on it, then add a pause to that waypoint. The pause can be for a period of time, or you can keep pushing the button until it becomes a permanent pause. You should now see that your boys stay upright when they reach the waypoint. To see how this is different from normal, select another squad, issue them a single waypoint, and watch how they go to ground when they get to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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