What german tank destroyed the most allied tanks ?

[Magpie_Oz]

According to WO 291/1186, "The comparative performance of German

anti-tank weapons during WWII", a report dated 24 May 1950,

British tank losses to German ATk weapons were in the following

proportions:

Theatre (tanks) Mines ATk guns Tanks SP guns Bazooka

Other Total

NW Europe (1305 tanks)

Mines 22.1%

ATk guns 22.7%

Tanks 14.5%

SP guns 24.4%

Bazooka 14.2%

Other 2.1%

Italy (671 tanks)

Mines 30%

ATk guns 16%

Tanks 12%

SP guns 26%

Bazooka 9%

Other 7%

N Africa (1734 tanks)

Mines 19.5%

ATk guns 40.3%

Tanks 38.2%

SP guns nil

Bazooka nil

Other 2%

Aggregate over all theatres

Mines 22.3%

ATk guns 29.4%

Tanks 25.3%

SP guns 13.5%

Bazooka 6.1%

Other 3%

[Vark]

Strange how we have hours of camera gun film from German fighters but hardly any for the tank busting Super-Stukas. There is quite alot of in cockpit footage of the JU-87 making conventional bombing attacks but not cannon attacks.

I've read his book and most of it is sheer pants, cowardly Red hordes given a severe battering by Rudel and his merry Teutonic aerial knights. The guy was a card-carrying Nazi who made a nice living, post-war with his tales of tank killing, and infact was a consultant to the A-10 project, so great was his fame. The A-10 itself was designed to be the JU-87 of the age, literally built around the cannon system designed to take out Soviet armour, but as Jason has pointed out the Mavericks and cluster bombs it carried were the real 'killers'. talking of Stuka accuracy, the Germans were so disappointed at the JU-87's performance at Dunkirk they took the particular FligerKorps and gave them intensive training against naval targets, yet talk to British veterans and they have tales of the Stuka's deadly accuracy against ships.

[argie]

Antipodal. Winter is rapidly approaching, but then so is the RWC. All in all, things are pretty good.

You?

Fairly good too. Waiting for CM coming back to Mac.

[LongLeftFlank]

Before we dismiss the entire "tank buster" efforts of both sides entirely as myth, I'd like to note that there are a number of vehicles (including AFVs) between pure soft-skinned trucks and tanks that could be quite vulnerable to aerial attack. The distinction between "tank" and "other AFV" was not as crystal clear even in 1944 as it is in the modern era of the MBT.

I can readily imagine an Allied pilot brewing up a Marder with rockets or cannon fire, for example, or any other open-topped SP gun and sincerely claiming it as a "tank" kill. Or a halftrack, whether APC or gun carrier. And some of the German armoured cars were OT too.

For Rudel and his merry men, pickings are thinner -- the only OT Soviet AFVs I can think of are the SU-76 and various scout cars and halftracks. But you get the idea.

[YankeeDog]

I remember reading somewhere that the guns that killed most tanks in the Eastern Front was the 105mm field guns and howitzers. Easy to believe giving them were far more ubiquitous than other kind of guns and in early years (and even in late years) of the war very few AFVs could withstand a shell of that size without at least suffering a M-Kill. Even a near miss could have easily dispatched a T-26 or BT.

According to the stats in Zaloga's Red Army Handbook, 105mm was nowhere near the biggest killer on the East. In fact on his charts (which AiUi are distilled from official Soviet war records), it barely registers. Pre-1943, Zaloga shows 50mm AP is the biggest killer of Soviet armor. 1943 on, it's usually 75mm AP, though 88mm Occasionally beats 75mm on specific fronts during specific periods, especially in early '45. At the very end, during the Götterdämmerung in Berlin, the "AT rocket" category makes a sudden jump up to 22.8% of losses, but still doesn't beat out the 75mm or 88mm AP categories.

The highest percentage of kills that Zaloga shows for 105mm is actually also in the fighting in and around Berlin in 1945 - 6.6%. So I guess pressing artillery pieces into AT service did become more common during this last, desperate fighting. But it's still only an also-ran, at best.

[Bastables]

Before we dismiss the entire "tank buster" efforts of both sides entirely as myth, I'd like to note that there are a number of vehicles (including AFVs) between pure soft-skinned trucks and tanks that could be quite vulnerable to aerial attack. The distinction between "tank" and "other AFV" was not as crystal clear even in 1944 as it is in the modern era of the MBT.

I can readily imagine an Allied pilot brewing up a Marder with rockets or cannon fire, for example, or any other open-topped SP gun and sincerely claiming it as a "tank" kill. Or a halftrack, whether APC or gun carrier. And some of the German armoured cars were OT too.

For Rudel and his merry men, pickings are thinner -- the only OT Soviet AFVs I can think of are the SU-76 and various scout cars and halftracks. But you get the idea.

There are less marder's and open topped SP guns than proper Panzers in Normandy though. . . and considering that a german panzer griendier regt only had to&e for one of the two battalions to be riding around in armoured Halftracks. The 2 ORS reports showed that all the truck, sp men, horses killed by air power occurred when German units hit the roads during the day trying to escape envelopment by the Allies. One of the pictures that arise from 2 ORS survay is that 3 dead tanks on a ridge were claimed over the course several days by multiple Sqn's. So successfully attacking three dead hulks then back to base for tea and medals.

France was a back water, the majority of units were their for rest refit and retraining after being ground down in the east. This included demotrisation symptoms such as having the scouting battalions use bikes as opposed to being motorised, A Panzer Div panther tank battalion on trains back to it's "parent" unit Grossduchland.

The defence that pilots were hopeless at target identification is not a good one at all. After all being factious but successfully shooting in a firefight or seeing a dead body in the aftermath does not make one a confirmed killer. The story can't be "Sgt I had to reload twice that's about 90rounds I'm sure I hit both those bastards and not Sav on the C-9.

[JasonC]

LLF - SPWs were certainly more vulnerable, not as much as unarmored trucks but nowhere near as survivable as full AFVs. The interdiction vs. Lehr on its move to Normandy is one example (2 dead full AFVs vs. 35 dead SPWs...) Another to the same formation (which comes up because it had ridiculous numbers of SPWs compared to all other divisions) comes up during its counterattack on the US front in early July. They parked the SPWs behind the attack frontage (because the infantry attacked dismounted mostly), and US pilots merrily blew up several thinking they were smashing the offensive (lol). So yes, tac air's proper target is softer transport, and SPWs fall on the thicker skinned end of that category but are somewhat vulnerable to WW II era air to ground. Not so much on the battlefield, but as long convoy targets on roads and the like.

[Magpie_Oz]

Well it is the old thing isn't it, blow up a tank and you have taken out one tank, blow up a petrol tanker or ammo truck and you have taken out a company of tanks.

[Ziploc]

I wonder what Panzer Group West HQ made of allied airpower?

[Magpie_Oz]

I wonder what Panzer Group West HQ made of allied airpower?

..... or blow up the HQ and take out an army

[Ziploc]

...or at least it's operational responsiveness!

[Magpie_Oz]

An interesting stat from the 21st panzer wikki page that does give a bit of an idea :

Between 6 June and 8 July, 21st Panzer reported the loss of 54 PzKpfw IV, with 17 PzKpfw IV arriving as replacements. On 3 July a German report stated the following number of enemy tanks destroyed by 21st Panzer according to weapon used: Pz: 37, Sturmgeschütz: 15, Mot. Pak & Flak: 41, Artillery: 3, Infantry: 5. Total 101. To 27 July German tank losses continued in similar numbers.

[Sardaukar]

Well, Luftwaffe Detachment Kuhlmey achieved some impressive hits against Soviets on Karelian Isthmus in 1944, supporting Finnish defence with their Ju-87s (dive bomber versions, not tank busting) and FW-190s.

But it has been said that their main contribution was to hit Soviet fuel convoys bringing fuel to tank units and to hit pontoon bridges during Battle of Vuosalmi. They had some impressive hits to pontoon bridges and one or two documented hits on Soviet tanks too. But realistically, when you are dropping 500kg or 1000kg bombs, even near miss can often put tank out of action, even if it is not total loss.