LongLeftFlank Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 So as I sit in the COC and wait for the action reports to come back in from my brave playtesters in Ramadi, I've been doing some prework on the next scenarios. And one key thing I've been trying to do is figure out a reasonable surrogate for the uparmoured Humvee guntrucks that became standard for Marine and Army troops in Iraq's urban areas by 2005. These vehicles featured heavier door and belly armour and enclosed turrets providing all-round small-arms protection for the gunner, and were by far the most common support vehicle in MOUT. So I can't really live without them. Unfortunately, they aren't in the game and Steve has refused my importunings to add them since he isn't interested in supporting any equipment that wouldn't see common use in a conventional invasion of Syria. Evidently, CMSF isn't really at its best in a COIN environment (let's just say I disagree politely on that). I have been trying out the BRDM as a potential surrogate for a guntruck in side-by-side taste-tests with the in-game M2-armed Humvee. I have them face off 250m away from 3 MMG bunkers and see how they fare. Both crews are CRACK and I also put some US passengers in the BRDM (they can't drive -- only Syrian crews can drive Syrian vehicles, although they can man its weapons if the Syrian crew is absent or dead) I don't own the British or NATO modules (yet), so I don't know if there's another Western wheeled vehicle that might make a better guntruck -- be interested in your opinions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 So my initial findings after about 10 10-minute playthroughs of my test are as follows: the Humvee takes a gunner casualty nearly 100% of the time. The Humvee is consistently fired upon by the bunkers for as long as they remain unsuppressed. On the other hand, the BRDM can sit there and plink away with impunity, and after a time the AI ceases to fire upon it (I didn't give them any HMGs or RPGs). However, in 1 play both crew and passengers bailed out of the vehicle, taking multiple casualties before they could reman it. That's even with front armour facing the enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 The BRDM -- strangely for a vehicle that is 2 tons heavier than the Humvee -- shows inferior side and rear armour protection against small arms and HMG (small "x"es instead of little "+" signs). So I had each vehicle slalom back and forth in front of the bunkers, exposing its side armour. In this case, the Humvee fared better for as long as it could reman its M2. In contrast, on multiple occasions, the BRDM crew and passengers took casualties through the paper thin side armour and abandoned ship. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 A** in sling wrapped in AAR to follow soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't own the British or NATO modules (yet), so I don't know if there's another Western wheeled vehicle that might make a better guntruck -- be interested in your opinions. There is an armoured truck with an enclosed .50 cal turret on the top that comes with the Marines module and another similar truck for US Light Inf. Battalions that comes with the NATO module. They are not based on the Humvee though. Personally I would find the suspension of disbelief very difficult if a briefing told me that some completely foreign vehicle is actually supposed to be a Humvee "Gun Truck". It would be better in my opinion to just accept that the Humvees in the scenario are weaker than those used historically and just take something off REDFOR or add something to BLUEFOR to balance things out. By the way, really looking forward to playing JOKER-3 and any other scenarios you create from your Ramadi map. The map is a work of art for sure. If you use Marines in your scenario, you might want to remember that if you set their equipment level to "Poor", all of those fancy rotary grenade launchers are replaced by standard M203s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The closest I can think of anything been a Gun truck or MRAP vehicle is the Canadian Nyala, although i dont know if its modelled as such 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heer witmann Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I have base game british and marines modules and the thing that might is the LMTV armoured truck:D 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 There is an armoured truck with an enclosed .50 cal turret on the top that comes with the Marines module and another similar truck for US Light Inf. Battalions that comes with the NATO module. They are not based on the Humvee though. Personally I would find the suspension of disbelief very difficult if a briefing told me that some completely foreign vehicle is actually supposed to be a Humvee "Gun Truck". It would be better in my opinion to just accept that the Humvees in the scenario are weaker than those used historically and just take something off REDFOR or add something to BLUEFOR to balance things out. By the way, really looking forward to playing JOKER-3 and any other scenarios you create from your Ramadi map. The map is a work of art for sure. If you use Marines in your scenario, you might want to remember that if you set their equipment level to "Poor", all of those fancy rotary grenade launchers are replaced by standard M203s. 1. Let me look at the MTVR. The higher profile might be a problem. I could try some Ryujin texture swapping to "reskin" the truck so it looked like a Humvee -- although the passenger capacity would then be way too big (on the other hand, the passenger capacity of the existing Humvees is at least 3 seats too few -- a Marine squad should fit in 2 Humvees). 2. I hear you -- not thrilled with the idea of mustachioed Syrians crewing US vehicles either. 3. Thanks. 4. Already done. The rotary grenade launchers would have come in useful in Ramadi, but indeed were not available in 2004-2006. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 The closest I can think of anything been a Gun truck or MRAP vehicle is the Canadian Nyala, although i dont know if its modelled as such Hmm, and the Nyala (RG-31) was in USMC service in Iraq as well (see the below pic from 2007). That might be the droid I'm looking for. My only hesitation is forcing people (like me) who don't own NATO or Brits to buy before they can play my scenarios. Need to think on this some more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heer witmann Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 go to editor cheak us army truck platoon should be what your looking for have alook 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Yep, LMTV Armoured Truck is the fellow and comes with the "British Forces" module, not "NATO" as I said originally. I'm pretty sure the "Marines" module gives the USMC something similar. By the way, just tried an LMTV truck platoon against a load of enemy combatants in a quickly thrown together battle in the editor and despite lots of small arms fire coming their way the LMTV platoon only suffered one wounded, who was a passenger or driver, not one of the M2 gunners. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Actually, best you can probably do is to use the manned-turret RG-31s (set quality to poor) from the NATO module Canadian Light Company with the squads and G-Wagens deleted and the platoon HQs set to later reinforcements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Let me mull on this further. As I said before, I am reluctant to force people to buy NATO/Brit just to get a vehicle for the Marines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Yeah its understandable, but if everything ets to complicated just role with the Hummer, I dont think anyone will acuse YOU of bieng lazy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Oh, I'm as lazy as they come, just in deep denial. Just don't know if you could get away with this kind of RL tactic using the exposed gunners. (i.e. having the guntrucks up ahead of the infantry). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E1cZrS5oiE (Be advised: not at all graphic but a few F-bombs) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Hmm, and the Nyala (RG-31) was in USMC service in Iraq as well (see the below pic from 2007). That might be the droid I'm looking for. Not just the Marines. US Army still use it in Iraq. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Also used in Afganistan by Spain and US, Seems to perform well. Its already saved some spanish soldiers lives, atleast one piece of equipment this goverment has some brains bying... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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