Big Al Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Here are some snap shots from Brute Force. Zoomed views http://www.wowfreegames.com/html/brute_force_sc2/euro.jpg http://www.wowfreegames.com/html/brute_force_sc2/pac.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 Damn they chopped em down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGungHo Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Wow - looking at your screen shots it seems as though a lot has been done to update the interface - excellent! Now for the obligatory question that I'm sure will be answered no - any chance of refitting the older SC series with the new interface? Global at least?? Hmmmm???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Yes, Hubert has done a lot to improve the interface and it's much nicer and easier to play with now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGungHo Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Hey Big Al, Will your mod ship with the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 why not include hexes and top down view. Top down looks nicer than isometric. But a question, what is different with ww1 engine and ww2 engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 My mod will be available the day the game comes out. The base engine is the same which can be used for anything really. I even thought make making a tactical simulation of a naval fight or a space game from it. But it translates just fine into WW2. They added more features, more options for modders, better AI. They even got units that will retreat from combat. Its definitely better than SC2 and even more modable. Personally I'm excited to test the newer AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 why not include hexes and top down view. Top down looks nicer than isometric. The quick answer here is that this game was started about 2 years ago using the SC2 engine with the current setup. But a question, what is different with ww1 engine and ww2 engine? Good question and we should have something in the next few weeks that outlines all the differences or I should say 'New Features' but off hand I can mention that we've got a few new research categories such as Gas and Shell Production as well as Trench Warfare. There are new rules for Artillery and Rail Guns so that you can stockpile shells between turns and fire off as many as 10 shells on a single turn per Artillery unit. Units can also build trenches, which were of course critical to WWI, and then we've incorporated a new feature for National Morale that is tied into overall unit losses, resource losses, as well as resources that are captured and enemy units that are destroyed. There are also key objectives that can increase/decrease your national morale which if it gets too low will affect the fighting spirit of your units in the field or possibly even cause you to surrender/lose outright. That and much more Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hubert, you are on the right track. But seriously you got to dump the tiles and do it top down. There is lot of great looking top down maps out there. Retreat rules would be a step forward of course. I'd like it to be automatic retreat unless it is in cities. I think for the next game you should go for sc3, hexes, retreat rules and top down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Also make it possible to start a scenario with higher number of units of a sort than the preset cap. So you can simulate the phasing out of unit-types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Retreat is in the WW1 Engine and the rules are fair. And it works in my WW2 mod nicely. Hexes.... I can't answer but all great things come with time and development. Even I didnt just make BF1939 overnight. It has ran over various map incarnations and 100 simulations for the AI. More units? That can be done via decision events. Something pops up when the game starts "more units? Yes = gimme 10 more, no = Im not a pig so no extra units" Phasing out units??? Like what? The game has improvements on units so it removes the need for that. Anyways do you really want to right click delete 100's of units every X months? BTW you forgot to mention fleet stacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Big Al, as you adressed me I can only tell you that this cheer leading stuff aint gonna work with me. I've seen dozen of beta testers say the same things over the years. Fact is hexes needs a new engine to run as the current is built on tiles. Tiles are bad in several ways, they make encirclements hard, they require 8 instead of 6 units to surround units, they portrait supplys bad as both sides can have their supply lines crossed, they eliminate the ww2 feel of breakthrough and make it a slugging match for cities and they make it hard to estimate ranges. All in all tiles are inferior to tiles when you are discussing vital aspects to war games. I would love to remake my waterloo, battle for russia and nach stalingrad scenarios but i'm not sure that this version would make it worth it. There is huge potential for Hubert's game with this possibility to make own scenarios, however tiles are not the way forward. The sooner that is dropped, the better. But phasing out let me give you an example; during the initial stages of barbarossa the red army abolished the corps system in favor of the field armies. If you would like to simulate that it would be nice if you could start with russian corps but no chance to rebuild them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 My version actually starts the Russians with only corps. They cant build armies till mid 1941 (part of improved game engine). But at the same time thats also very hard to incorporate in a game, you have to do it abstractly. Only War in Europe has a system of replacement like you suggest and thats a board game on a div level. I agree with you the game needs hexes. I mentioned the few extra features to Hubert that are needed and he agrees. They do listen to their testers and gamers also for improvements. Just got to give them time. There are only 3 games I play over the ages that are truely good, Galactic Civ II, World of Warcraft, and SC2 system. When you add everything up the SC system is far better than the others competing against it out there for its scale, AI, and flexibility. It has infinite possibilities with its editor. Ive already thought of a dozen or so scenarios I can make in different eras including space battles. Also the AI is pretty well done and one can manipulate it. But I understand its not for everyone. Hexes will come. They got the hard stuff right 1st. One thing no one sees is the playability of the game. Ever try and play the monster pacific war game from Matrix? The useability is horrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 And BTW I dont get paid by the company, I support them and my mod on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Al, I'm glad you continue push for hexes. I agree with you that the sc2 series are great games but they could be so much better. Today there are no games of ww2 outthere that both give you scenarios as well as make your own. The big problem for sc2 is the lack of hexes, retreat rules etc that is seriously hampering the effort. I'm glad if Hubert incorporates stop on certain units until you says so. But I would also like to have the possibility of pre-setting a higer number of units on the map than the hard-build limit. That way I could simulate the soviet abolishment of corps-system and the introduction of tank armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin I Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Interesting point about supply lines crossing with tiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Technically you could just give lots of several types and later down the game its a simple matter of economy. Say in my mod the USSR has 50 corps and 35 armies. Now I change it to 85 corp and 85 armies as their build limit Its late 1942 and you know you will be on the offensive in 1943. Do you build 85 corps or 85 armies? If the presets were 50 and 35 then you build some of one and all of the other. But with 85 and 85 it really lets you completely change your structure. So you can do it abstractly. You can even setup the scenario where the USSR has garrisons and corps and then later incorporate armies. Its just a matter of imagination. I came up with some good inovations in my mod that I see in the WWI game. I also have seen Hubert come out with some good inovations that I use in my mod. You just really have to think about how to incorporate what you want to accomplish. Its not easy sometimes but doable. I found there is almost nothing I cant incorporate. I even made an atomic bomb units in my mod, a ASW coastal plane unit, I can make SS, guard, mech corps... anything. I just keep what makes sense for the game. So look at the editor. Experiment. Look at nups mod or mine. We both shared ideas we used from each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 But I would also like to have the possibility of pre-setting a higer number of units on the map than the hard-build limit. That way I could simulate the soviet abolishment of corps-system and the introduction of tank armies. Would just making it impossible for the USSR to rebuild Corps solve the issue? Or very expensive to do so? An alternative is that if you'd like the USSR to be able to rebuild 50% of their Corps, then a work around could be to have the extra 50% deploy by script on the first turn. That way the build limit could be (say) 20 but you could have 40 on the map at the beginning. Admittedly those that arrive by script will have to start the game on or adjacent to a resource, but I would imagine that would be appropriate for many judging by the starting positions in your Battle for Russia mod (which I did play and enjoy a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Bill: If it's impossible to rebuild units would work as well. As long as you can start a scenario with them and then not be able to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Would just making it impossible for the USSR to rebuild Corps solve the issue? Or very expensive to do so? An alternative is that if you'd like the USSR to be able to rebuild 50% of their Corps, then a work around could be to have the extra 50% deploy by script on the first turn. That way the build limit could be (say) 20 but you could have 40 on the map at the beginning. Admittedly those that arrive by script will have to start the game on or adjacent to a resource, but I would imagine that would be appropriate for many judging by the starting positions in your Battle for Russia mod (which I did play and enjoy a lot). Yea you could actually. Give them a low # of corp and pop them up using a script that goes over the limit. As they get elminated via war they dont come back. I'll have to think about this one. Right now it works fine in my game the way I have it stuctured and balanced. Its definitely an easy setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Al, in my battle for russia mod there is trouble with scripting this as we are talking about hundreds of units. And also not all should pop up next to a resource. Anyhow another feature that is weird is how resilient enenmy forces is to encirclement. Say you cut off an enemy army in a fort. The enemy can keep fighting and reinforce despite no connection with the rest of the enemy's lines. The units value should begin to drop immediately but doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Thats because in SC2GC they dont surrender. Look at Stalingrad. I think the Russians lost more men trying to kill the encircled Germans than the Germans took losses. They lasted 3 months with little to no supplies. The city issue is a problem where if you capture a city its in supply and you can reinforce. Its a problem with the game engine, and I have not thought of a solution for it to suggest to Hubert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 At least they should not be able to reinforce. You should not have to completly surround a unitwith 8 units to stop it from reinforcing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 You don't have to use 8 units, you just have to clear out the enemy ZoCs. If you deploy units 1 tile away from the target tile, leave a 1 tile buffer, you can cut off the enemy unit and then use bombers to reduce supplies. The one problem with small maps like the default campaign is this tactic is a little more difficult and that's why I like Nup's campaign, plenty of room for maneuver options. The mechanism is there for the player to use. Oh, and BTW, Stalingrad was supplied by the Luftwaffe for a couple of months, albeit inadequately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well but as there is no possibility of airsupply how come units survive and can reinforce in forts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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