Target/Target Light frustrations

[stikkypixie]

Hi,

I am playing the German campaign, and so far I am enjoying it but for one thing: the Marders. Don't get me wrong, these things are great, they are fast, pack a lot of punch and can level buildings in minutes.

However, they become almost useless when a scenario has preserve objectives. Right now there is no way to tell the damned things to use their machine guns only when area firing at buildings. One scenario, my men are constantly receiving fire from a hidden automatic grenade launcher and I can't suppress the suspected positions because they have to be preserved. Now you can tell me, you should give up those objectives to save your men, but then I tell that's just plain stupid because normally I could have done both!

To make things worse, when not targeting buildings the Marders only use their machine guns, when I really needed the automatic cannon to for added firepower. Use regular target, then the bloody things start firing of Milan missiles.

Now I realize it's not very easy to change code (I have experience with that) and I know the GUI is not that flexible. But SOMETHING has to change.

Make a third target order where you can select stuff, make target light with a pop-up dialog, use SHIFT+something to get the behaviour, anything is better than it is now.

Thanks in advance.

[c3k]

Oh, I feel your pain, but I still have to laugh. Really. Because, waaaaaayyyy back here...

http://battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=82818 ... in July, of 2008 - yeah, 2 and 1/2 years ago I brought this up. I was told that there would never be a reason to use MG's instead of autocannon. Yeah. Experts. (I wonder if any of them read Creighton's biography?)

Try the BMP-3. It's worse....

Ken

[DaveDash]

The answer to your problem is very simple: Screw the ROE.

Unless its some sort of special building, and as long as you don't go around blowing up all the buildings willy nilly, you will still most likely get a major or total victory for annihilating the enemy.

I consider the ROE to be 'If fired upon from that building, it's fare game, otherwise preserve'.

Even HE rounds from the main cannon will damage a building btw, so you're going to damage it one way or another. Might as well get it over with.

EDIT: I also understand that yeah, Marders should use their autocannon my default. Are they not doing this? Odd.

[finalcut]

I seem to remember the U.S. Marines blowing the crap outta a hospital in Iraq when it was full of snipers and catching hell on the News and from the U.N. for doing it.They still achieved a major victory. Funny thing I remember was a Marine Captain got in real hot water over it because a U.N. type said while talking to the Marine Captain"It was estimated your unit fired over 8000 rounds at the hospital in various calibres,why did you fire 8000 rounds?The Marine Captain replied"Because we ran outta ammo.";) I say Semper Fi to that one.

Sad thing is,he is probably a Marine Pvt now thanks to some left wing,liberal,weeney Politicians in Washington.

[Erwin]

Am pretty sure that I played a German scenario and the Marders used their cannon ok. Hmm...

Also, even with "Preserve" instructions, you can shoot 30 secs to a minute of 25mm-30mm at a building without causing enuff destruction to lose points. (Need to test to get experience.)

Same thing with air and arty (up to 81mm) set to LIGHT and PERSONNEL. I often find I can send a dozen or so air missions to shoot up the enemy over a large area without losing points from damaging buildings.

[stikkypixie]

The answer to your problem is very simple: Screw the ROE.

Unless its some sort of special building, and as long as you don't go around blowing up all the buildings willy nilly, you will still most likely get a major or total victory for annihilating the enemy.

I consider the ROE to be 'If fired upon from that building, it's fare game, otherwise preserve'.

Even HE rounds from the main cannon will damage a building btw, so you're going to damage it one way or another. Might as well get it over with.

EDIT: I also understand that yeah, Marders should use their autocannon my default. Are they not doing this? Odd.

The problem is it is a) inconsistent from a gamer point of view and Marders have what is basically a modern MG42, which can perfectly suppress a target without damaging it, but because of the GUI limitations you cannot use.

[DaveDash]

The problem is it is a) inconsistent from a gamer point of view and Marders have what is basically a modern MG42, which can perfectly suppress a target without damaging it, but because of the GUI limitations you cannot use.

I just did some tests, and I see what you mean.

Also in my tests, when targeting the ground, Marders only use their MG42 with both Target and Target Light. Bug?

[c3k]

No, not a bug, just the way it was designed and implemented. This folds into infantry weapon use issues as well. Certain infantry weapons are specialized. Certain AFV weapons are specialized. It would be an improvement in the game if the player could go "hot" or "hold" on those special weapons.

For example, the Marder has ATGM, autocannon, and machinegun. If we stipulate that the ATGM is special, then, TARGET would mean autocannon + (at AI discretion) Mg; TARGET LIGHT would limit the Marder to firing its MG. The ATGM could be used by selecting the new order. It could be called "ATGM", or "SPECIAL", or "MILAN" anything else.

All this is subject to TacAI logic and override. If the Marder were using TARGET LIGHT against a building, then a T-55 hove into view, the appropriate response would be to launch the ATGM.

Ken

[Apache]

I'd agree that more control over the Marders would be preferable. That said I have never seen them fire a Milan at all (yes they are unbuttoned and also beyond min range)

[Battlefront.com]

Sad thing is,he is probably a Marine Pvt now thanks to some left wing,liberal,weeney Politicians in Washington.

A warning that this sort of political statement is not allowed on our Forum. Plus, if one wants to start talking about how well our troops are treated by our politicians, neither party comes off looking very good. A fact that is, sadly, overlooked by people on the either political extreme. Which, when pointed out, usually causes someone to loose their cool and then their decency. And that is exactly why we have the no politics discussion rules in place.

Steve

[c3k]

Steve, WHAT are you doing over here? Get back to CM:BN and get cracking! You've got to get it up on order status so we can flood your bank account with money!

But, if you're still browsing the CM:SF side of the tracks, is there any chance of a modified UI for weapons issues like we're discussing here? (Even if it won't be retrofitted into CM:SF; is it on a "to do" list somewhere at BF.C?)

Thanks,

Ken