Sab Abar

[BillyR]

One of the Brit module missions in the campaign is called Sab Abar and I cannot get my trucks to the other end...or at least, not all of them.

I've tried going slow with both AFVs leading for protection - stopping in contact then continuing...I've tried hair arsing it down the roads...

For a start, the mission briefing isn't clear, as NOTHING is mentioned about the built up area to the right in the mission with regard to taking it, and yet it shows up on the stats at the end as a fail for me...(one reason why I really like the NATO module - the mission briefings are much clearer)

Anyone got any tips?

[BillyR]

Maybe some SPOILERS in here for people who haven't played...

God - I am really very bored with this mission now.

First of all, let me say - I'm blaming no-one for my bad results on this except me...

Now that's out the way - it has to be one of the single most unbalanced missions I've seen in this franchise!

I've had missions where I've had Challengers, troops falling out the backs of Bradleys there are so many of them, and precious few any (seemingly in comparison)...with this mission, you get 12 trucks, 3 Scimitars, 3 Bradleys, 2 squads and an HQ unit...that's the lot and you are attacked from all sides and all angles with OpFor which seem to have AT coming out of their ears!

A plethora of OpFor trucks attack from the west, East, South...on top of all that, it seems impossible to drive over the bridge without hitting an IED.

As well as having to escort these trucks through hell, according to the results at the end, I have to use my meagre forces to take the village to the right...there's just not enough forces.

My first Bradley and Scimitar manage to stay on the top of the hill and pick off a lot of the OpFor that show in the beginning, but then they are quickly knocked out with the number of AT that show up...

Please - I beg you - can someone give me ideas on how to handle this mission?

What happens if I bypass it? Is it a shorter campaign? Is there a campaign mission list showing what leads to where?

[Blackcat]

**** Sort of Spoilers *****

Its been a while since I played this but if I recall I succeeded by not moving forward until it was safe to do so.

I kept the trucks well back out of the way and got my Scimitars and Warriors into postions which dominated the ground but were outsde RPG range of cover that could be used by the enemy. The AI will come for you in their dozens and you blow them apart with the Rardens and 7.62s. Once that is over blast the village using a squad or two to force the enemy to show their position and finally, in the last few minutes drive the trucks to the finish line.

[phil stanbridge]

MAJOR SPOILERS:

I think you only need to get a handful of trucks into the safe zone for it to be classed a victory. I've won it several times now. Don't go down the middle or the left. The British campaign is excellent on the whole. Far more challenging that the USMC and US Army campaigns.

Use warriors/Schims as over watch at distance - and get the trucks and other stuff over to the far right. Use the far right path and advance cautiously - there are recoiless rifles (one hiding behind the buildings) and at least one ATGM as well as dug in troops with RPGs. There's also a couple of HMG in the buildings that can cause some pain. I tend to keep the trucks out of harms way in a defilade that is nicely positioned on the right, because there will be some ambushes to contend with. Rear and out at the flanks. Leave the trucks there for most of the mission and then within the last 10 minutes advance them as fast as you can up the right side. You will probably lose a few, or at least take some damage, but you should escape most of the hassle. Like I said, I've won that mission several times now, and I'm pretty sure I wont it last time with only a handful of trucks at the exit zone.

[BillyR]

Thx for your feedback.

I had thought about keeping the trucks back, but I thought that was gamey?! I thought the idea was to travel "like" a convoy, picking off the enemy before they pick you off...but I just ended up with a handful of trucks at the end and a whole lot of metal and stranded soldiers along the road!

I'd be interested to hear of anyone who played it "like it should" and succeeded.

As it is, I think I'll take your advice and hold the trucks back until it's safer

[Webwing]

Hm, I don´t think the idea of moving on in a convoy fashion and sort of ignoring the big threat around you is to play it "like is should", as you put it.

I imagine the convoy will travel for many kilometers, in line, one vehicle after the other. They will do this as long as there are no threats close by. Once they find enemies firing at them, the sensible thing to do is to stop and let the better protected guys deal with the enemy and then move on.

So, this scenario is not trying to depict the convoy on the move but a little area in their route where they had to face the enemy.

In that sense the right way to deal with this is what Phil and BlackCat have mentioned.

-

[Lethaface]

Yeah keep your trucks at the rear part of your convoy, totally realistic as a truck is not intended to be tip of the spear.

It was some time ago and it also took me a couple of tries, but in the end I also used the trucks as backup fire support. Al those .50's together do pack a heavy punch.

Recon area's with your troops and IFV's, keeping a lot of overwatch. Because of time shortage in the end I just moved all the trucks at maximum speed under cover of smoke and overwatch from my troops. Can't remember whether I lost any but If you have the majority of the enemy forces suppressed you can move m through relatively easy.

[BillyR]

Hm, I don´t think the idea of moving on in a convoy fashion and sort of ignoring the big threat around you is to play it "like is should", as you put it.

I imagine the convoy will travel for many kilometers, in line, one vehicle after the other. They will do this as long as there are no threats close by. Once they find enemies firing at them, the sensible thing to do is to stop and let the better protected guys deal with the enemy and then move on.

So, this scenario is not trying to depict the convoy on the move but a little area in their route where they had to face the enemy.

In that sense the right way to deal with this is what Phil and BlackCat have mentioned.

-

Cool. I wasn't really thinking along that vein...and I certainly didn't mean to say that driving through an action area is the way a convoy would do it.

What I was really alluding to was the way the vehicles are setup, the fact that there are no spotted units etc...just seemed setup to move along in convoy. Also with the fact that the rest of the convoy would be arriving in 10 minute intervals - everything about how the scenario started suggested you should get moving.

As it is, I think I will do just that...move along in convoy (as would be the case) and stop on contact, eliminating any threat.

I think I said this in another post, but to reiterate - I find the mission briefings very vague in CMSF and this has been highlighted dramatically by the release of NATO.

[Erwin]

I agree with you. SOME designers seem to expect you to assume a lot. I haven't played this scenario, but now I know the trick I imagine I can do fine. But, it shouldn't be a "trick."

If you don't SEE any problems, what leads you assume there is an ambush?

If a convoy stopped (for 10 minutes did someone say?) every time there is a concern for a threat, it would never get anywhere. I hope I am not maligning this designer (as it's a lot of work to design anything), but from what BillyR has said it sounds like the problem is similar to the hated CM1 problem of briefings that mislead.

[Jonny(FGM)]

It's quite obvious what your problem is. You are calling warriors bradleys, the crews won't like that ; )

In all seriousness I only got through this one with minimal casualties with a lot of saving and reloading

[JonS]

If you don't SEE any problems, what leads you assume there is an ambush?

Uh, do you know what the 'C' in CMSF stands for?

Hint: the game isn't called Cargo Management: Shipping Freight

[JonS]

... on top of all that, it seems impossible to drive over the bridge without hitting an IED. ...

So, I went to the Doctor recently, and I said “Doctor, it hurts when I do this.” The doctor simply said, “Stop doing that!” What an idiot that doctor is. 12 years training, and the best medical advice he has is for me to do something else

according to the results at the end, I have to use my meagre forces to take the village to the right

?

Why on earth do you HAVE to take the village? There are VPs for it, but surely your requirement is to win the scenario, not secure every objective listed?

[Jonny(FGM)]

Oh and regarding the IEDs on the bridge. The warriors have IED jammers, just put one at each end of the bridge and the trucks can go past it safely : )

PS: Of course after sweeping 100m either side of it with inf to watch out for any wire IED trigger men : )

[Waaarg]

I went left, and avoided the right for most of the mission. Eventually you have to have some attention there, but I had overwatch and a fresh arrivals and dealt with the right side surge.

The compound on the right is only dangerous if:

A) You don't explore the outside walls

If any of there units get a bead on your vehicles

I had one warrior sit outside the walls, kill what needed badly to be killed, and none of the inf that had RPGs ever attempted to go high and get LOS on it. And since I never drove by the opening, nothing bothered my troops. If you go for surrender, you never have to worry about it.

Use infantry to assault suppressed infantry and do it quickly as you will need your HE ammo throughout the mission and can't afford to waste them hitting walls and ground infantry are fighting from. And in one particular area (middle left), use your infantry to peek over and suppress hiding infantry waiting to ambush (reverse slope) and then rush a warrior or Scimitar up on their flank to destroy them.

Keep a close eye out for big splashes that signal ATGMs and get as much fire on them as you can to knock them out quickly. And knowing where and when the enemy reinforcements will come from after a few playthroughs will help you get your units where they need to be to put lead downrange and take em out.

My first playthrough I made the mistake of going down the middle and was ambushed repeatedly and casualties were high. Switching tactics, going left, and operating my vehicles in teams of 2-4 (except the lone warrior that went outside the compound on the right), it was fairly easy.

[BillyR]

Thx for the advice.

Wrote a BIG response - and decided most of you have been helpful - so this is my response....

I'm sorry I didn't write an essay on the different tactics I had tried over the number of times I had tried...

But most of the advice here is helpful. Thank you.

[Erwin]

Jon: It's the old dilemma between playing the game with assumptions as to what the designer intended, or trying to see it as a real life situation where (in this case) you may have 100 miles to go so you try and "act normally."

[JonS]

Erwin: yeah, that's a fair point. But there are other assumptions at work here. The big one is that you as a player know - and I really mean KNOW - that there is going to be enemy on the map, and there's going to be a fight.

It's reasonable in Sab Abar for the player to initially 'act normally' and convoy the trucks forward in accordance with the briefing. That's expected, even. However the player should, as commander, also reassess the situation once in contact to figure out how the situation has changed and what they're going to do about it. In Sab Abar the situation changes from 'Move these trucks from A to B. Yawn.' to 'OMFGWTFBBQ! I'm in contact! Protect the trucks and fight through!' Continuing to push the trucks forward does remain a valid choice for the player/commander, but I'd suggest that it isn't an especially good choice

You need a plan to start with, but once the situation changes you need to change your plan. At the very least you need to check that your existing plan remains viable. Blundering ahead with an outdated plan is a poor exercise of command.

This isn't just me babbling, either ...

6-87. The commander does not hesitate to modify a plan, or scrap it altogether, if necessary to accomplish the mission, achieve greater success, or save the force. Adhering to a plan when the situation has changed significantly wastes resources and opportunities. Since operations rarely unfold according to plan, the flexibility to adapt to changes is the hallmark of a good tactician. Effective commanders are flexible in their thinking. Their commands are agile enough to execute changes to plans on short notice. Link

[Erwin]

I guess now I will have to actually PLAY the scenario and figure out what is reasonable lol.