Casualties & Condition

[Chops]

In the modern war setting keeping Blue casualties to a minimum is a priority for political reasons, etc… So CM:SF settings for casualties/condition are usually low to keep things realistic.

Point 1

In scenarios that I have designed I typically set the Blue victory parameters as follows:

Friendly Casualties < 20% (Less than 20% of Blue troops killed or seriously wounded)

From the Manual - Casualties is casualties suffered, e.g. 100% means the whole force was wiped out. Both soldiers and vehicles are factored into this and you get partial credit for immobilizing a vehicle.

The Condition parameter is confusing. The Manual states that Condition is the number of units allowed to be panicked, routed, tired, or wounded. It also says that - Condition is a combination of (from most important to least) morale, fatigue, suppression, and light wounds.

Within the Scenario Editor the Condition Parameter is listed as –

Friendly Condition > X%

Shouldn’t his be set as Friendly Condition (less than) X% in the Scenario Editor rather than (greater than)? For example, Friendly Condition < 30%, meaning less than 30% of Blue units are panicked, routed, tired, or wounded.

I have been typically setting Friendly Condition > 75%, with the assumption that it means at least 75% of Blue units are in good shape, and not panicked, routed, tired, or wounded. However, after re-reading the Manual, I am not at all clear on this. Can someone please clarify how the Friendly Condition parameter should typically be set in CM:SF for the Blue force?

Point 2

Scenario Designers, how will you typically set your Blue - Casualty and Condition victory parameters in CM:N?

Obviously much higher casualties were accepted in WWII than is the case today.

[Jonny(FGM)]

The manual doesn't really state it so i did some tests myself.

The best way to explain it is at the start of a scenario casualties are 0% and such can only get higher, however condition starts at 100% and can only go down. And the settings in the scenario editor should be set accordingly, IE if you want at max 10% casualties and the force at no less than 80% effective you should set the casualty settings to 10% and force condition to 80%

Hope this helps?

[Chops]

Thanks Jonny. Do any of you other Scenario Designers have some input on my post?

[Alan8325]

Do you know if troops killed (brown base) count as more points towards "Casualties" than seriously wounded (red base)?

[Jonny(FGM)]

I think (think being the operative word here) that in terms of casualty % levels it is no.

But if you gain points for destroying units that they do

[Alan8325]

I think (think being the operative word here) that in terms of casualty % levels it is no.

But if you gain points for destroying units that they do

Hmm, I would think that doing buddy aid on the wounded would affect casualty % level and your parameters score if you are negating the 25% chance of death by doing so. So you are saying buddy aid on the wounded only applies an effect to the enemy's score in scenarios where they get points for certain targets?

[Jonny(FGM)]

I believe that is so.

For the casualty rate I think it's just the total number of red bases (whichever shade), this is all my best guess however as I don't think BF have confirmed this

[Jonny(FGM)]

The manual isn't exactly clear

Casualties is casualties suffered, e.g. 100% means the whole force

was wiped out. Both soldiers and vehicles are factored into this

and you get partial credit for immobilizing a vehicle.

Condition is a combination of (from most important to least) morale,

fatigue, suppression, and light wounds (more serious

wounds or death are part of casualties, not condition).

[Clavicula_Nox]

I usually set my allowed Casualty rate at 20 or 25%. Realistically speaking, 25% casualties for a single operation is alot. For a Battalion, that's a whole company; for a company, that's a whole platoon, and so on. I think 20-25% is pretty generous, but sometimes stuff happens.

[Chops]

I usually set my allowed Casualty rate at 20 or 25%. Realistically speaking, 25% casualties for a single operation is alot. For a Battalion, that's a whole company; for a company, that's a whole platoon, and so on. I think 20-25% is pretty generous, but sometimes stuff happens.

What sort of Condition parameters are you setting for your Scenario's?

[zwobot]

I wish the actual casualty and condition rates would be shown in the debriefing and not only if the respective objectives were achieved or not.

[Taki]

I wonder why you want to set this in CM:N?! Its realeased? ^^

[Clavicula_Nox]

What sort of Condition parameters are you setting for your Scenario's?

I don't set anything, mainly because I don't know how it works.

[Chops]

I don't set anything, mainly because I don't know how it works.

Yeah, it would be really helpful to get some clarification on this from Paper Tiger, GeorgeMC, Normal Dude, or some of the other great Scenario Designers/Beta Testers working on the Nato module.

Also I would like to hear how the Scenario Designers working on CM:N are setting casualty and condition parameters.

[Jonny(FGM)]

Whats hard to see about how it works?

if you take a set no of casualties you don't get the points associated with that.

In terms of what level to set it at, well that all depends on what sort of scenario you're creating.

Making an isolated plt coming under attack from a company of armour and them holding the ground is vital if the whole american forces flank is to be protected? then you're probably not going to be very strict on casualties?

If on the other hand it is a simple attack just after breaching the border then well you probably don't want to take any casualties.

[ChrisND]

Casualty parameter: Keep your forces below the friendly %, and you get the points. Push the enemies casualties above the enemy %, and you get the points.

The Condition parameter counts wounded and routed soldiers and such. It isn't used very often.

Ammo parameter is pretty straightforward.

[Chops]

ND, thanks. I am well aware of how the casualty and ammo victory parameters work. My primary question as indicated in the first post of this thread is regarding the condition parameter.

I have been playing the game since it was released and have read the manual many times, however, I am still not clear on its proper use.

Steve, if you have a chance, I would appreciate your input on this, with a clear example of how to set condition parameters.

[MikeyD]

I've been building scenarios since 2007 and I wouldn't mind someone explaining casualty parameters to me, too!

[Paper Tiger]

I don't use the Condition paramater in my missions because it seems to be a very dynamic condition. It doesn't start at 100% and then decrease steadily as the missions continues like casualties or ammo does. It can go back up as your troops recover so you can get the points back just by parking your troops somewhere safe for a while. So I found that the player often lost the points for this condition when the scenario ended because his troops had been exerting themselves to achieve their victory. Seemed a bit unfair.