goodwood Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Apart from the obvious the (karboom) how do you tell whether your vehicle is hit by an at missile or run over a mine, does a hole appear in the ground. I am just curious, as I have occasionally lost a vehicle without actually knowing how! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaragdadler Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 ...hit by an at missile or run over a mine... There are more possibilities. Never underestimate these recoilless thingies for instance... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Well if you're playing WEGO you can just re run the replay to see what happened if a vehicle was "OK" at the start of the turn and "KO" at the end. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souldierz Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Like in real life there are moments where nobody knows what hit them.Leaves you with a 'What the hell was that' thought.I find the only way you know what hit you is if your troops identify the enemy AT team or you see the missile flying through the air.That or rewind in WEGO.I had a tank take 3 missiles before i knew what was hitting them.Honestly, Ive never seen a vehicle hit a mine, (luck on my part i guess but IEDs is a different story big and small)but if it did, it would have to be an AT mine and i would think that they would be strong enough to at least leave a small pot hole near the tank, but in some cases AT rockets leave a hole also. If the vehicle suffered through a blast, my bet would be that you got nailed by a well placed AT weapon and better start looking for where they could be hiding.If no enemy is identified and no one is under fire and also no more explosions happen, then it could be an IED or mine, but like Smaragdadler wrote "never underestimate these recoilless thingies for instance..." that 9 times out of 10 is your culprit.Silent and deadly and hard to detect and spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Ive never seen a vehicle hit a mine, (luck on my part i guess but IEDs is a different story big and small)but if it did, it would have to be an AT mine and i would think that they would be strong enough to at least leave a small pot hole near the tank, but in some cases AT rockets leave a hole also. AP mines don't leave craters in the game but can still damage light vehicles. On the very first mission in the Brits campaign I found that a Scimitar had an injured crew member, leaving me wondering how that happened without them being unbuttoned. After watching the replays it turned out that it hit AP mines. Strangely there wasn't any damage to the tracks. It's a little odd that the underside got penetrated but the tracks weren't damaged. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Strangely there wasn't any damage to the tracks. It's a little odd that the underside got penetrated but the tracks weren't damaged. Not really. Only the early (first generation) AT mines relied on actual contact with the track to achieve detonation. These tended though to only produce a M-Kill (mobility kill), often not creating crew casualties and the vehicle often could still fire, etc. so you swapped a mobile tank for a fixed pillbox. Modern AT mines work on all sorts of detonators (changes in magnetic fields, perhaps contact with the track but with a shaped charge under the hull, etc.). These mines tend to be designed for a K-Kill (catastrophic) where the crew is killed / wounded and or the vehicle is destroyed, rather than "just" immobilised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Well I thought originally that the mines in this scenario were anti-personnel mines that still somehow damaged the scimitar, but I just checked again after clicking "cease fire" and the mine fields say "mix". Are the AT mines in these fields really small as far as AT mines go? I would think that an AT mine would turn a scimitar inside-out, not just wound a crewmember and leave components fully intact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Well without seeing the map / playing the game it could be all sorts of things. Perhaps the crew was unbuttoned and the vehicle ran over an AP mine and the shrap wounded the exposed crewman to something just futzed up. Sorry, but when things like this happen I just roll with the punches, unless I know something is wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 That's half the fun of playing Realtime! A big BOOM at the far end of the map and you panic! Hidden ATGM? Tank assault? One lucky infantryman? When I switch back to playing WEGO I tend to feel guilty rewinding and scouring the map for clues. Playing Realtime keeps me honest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodwood Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 G'day, Yes its fair enough to not to know what sort of atg has hit u,or where it originated from, but I would think if u ran over a land mine it would be pretty clear what the culprit was. In the game, an instance like that, it would very useful to know so u could keep clear of that area and chuck in a section of ginger beers to check the ground. Ron 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Alan8325, Not all antitank mines obtain kill via large blast effects. Quite a few are P-charge (plate charge) types whose kill mechanism is a self-forging fragment (SFF) AKA Misznay-Schardin device. See. for example, the U.S. M21 http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/atm.htm and the Russian TM-72 (note SFF in cutaway pics) http://ordatamines.maic.jmu.edu/displaydata.aspx?OrDataId=5666 Such mines don't require direct contact with the target and can be influence fuzed. An SFF hit in the wrong place, particularly on a light AFV, might have much the same effect as 88 fire against a Stuart from certain aspects--goes clean through but doesn't do much, for the simple reason there's little for the penetrator to interact with, generating only localized effects. Smaragdadler, I fail to grok how a recoilless rifle's enormous backblast can be hidden, absent special circumstances and splendid geometry. Granted, this is a big RR (M40 106 mm), but you get the idea (3:30 on). Here's the firing signature of a much smaller one (B-10?). http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/2/Afgan-firing-rocket-227949.html Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVulture Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 G'day, Yes its fair enough to not to know what sort of atg has hit u,or where it originated from, but I would think if u ran over a land mine it would be pretty clear what the culprit was. In the game, an instance like that, it would very useful to know so u could keep clear of that area and chuck in a section of ginger beers to check the ground. Ron If you trigger a mine, you should see the minefield marker on the map (unless it is inside your vehicle ). AFAIK the mine marker always appears when a mine in the field is triggered; there is no 'spotting' of mines that might leave it absent. So if you don't see a mine marker nearby, then there are no mines and it was some other AT asset. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaragdadler Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 ... Smaragdadler, I fail to grok how a recoilless rifle's enormous backblast can be hidden, absent special circumstances and splendid geometry. Granted, this is a big RR (M40 106 mm), but you get the idea (3:30 on). ... Just was answering the question, which was about CMSF. Especially in Urban settings, they are sometimes hard to locate after just one shot, if placed well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMulder Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 usually, the next minute you cna spot what hit you, as the hit draws attention from your nearby troops. ATGM teams are often killed like this. they fire a couple of missiles and then sombone in my ranks spots them, unleashing a moment later a hellstorm that litterally blows them away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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