Area fire option

[noxnoctum]

I'd LOVE to see an option to target a "circle area" as an option to the standard area attack. What I mean is you click once to area attack and then move your mouse outwards or inwards to create a bigger circle.

That way you could have a tank or mg or what have you rake an entire area (say a treeline) with mg fire and not have to use a different unit for each individual target (which you have to do if they're not right next to each other).

Ideally, there would also be a seperate area attack that used a rectangle for the target area.

[Secondbrooks]

Was about to say that it's not good because firepower way too easily gets distributed to large area than it's capable of suppressing, but came to different conclusion. Could be pretty useful. Most tanks have lots of firepower, which doesn't get used (atleast by me). And many times they use too much fire at one particular position.

Or maybe it could be possible to give multiple area targets?

[Pandur]

well thats quiet simple to do allready. i call it the "area fire dance".

looks like this, depending on armament you can give less(105/120/125mm)or more(12.7/14.5mm) pause in between target changes.

EDIT: well this is a example only...you can group the targets as you want.

[stoex]

Pandur, interesting tactic and nice screenshot....looks to me like a serious case for RT, though . More control, less shimmying around...

OTOH, both RT and WeGo could profit from Secondbrooks' idea of multiple targets, which I will +1 here FWIW. It would be really nice to be able to simply tell a unit to put fire HERE for 15 seconds, then THERE for 10 seconds, and finally OVER THERE for 30 seconds (or the remainder of the turn), without changing position.

I think a way to realize this would be two separate pause commands, one pertaining to movement orders only, the other to target orders. This would also allow shifting units from cover to cover, preventing them from stopping to fire while between cover spots. Fire at enemy for a while, run to the next house, resume firing at enemy. Sounds good to me

[Blackcat]

Pandur,

Interesting, thank you.

One question do you find such limited periods of supressive fire effective? I ask because in my experience anything less than a couple of minutes worth achieves very little, but too much has the effect of driving the defenders back into the building (from where they hit my assulting squad as it takes the first "room"). I am trying to find a balance.

[Pandur]

Pandur, interesting tactic and nice screenshot....looks to me like a serious case for RT, though

well nothing special, i just use the system we are given by BFC. its all there in place right now.

if i would play RT this would be quiet obsolete, you can change target every split second if you would want too, this area fire dance is "designed" for WEGO.

not that i say it is not possibly in RT but its much more practical to distribute the fire yourself in RT then to work up a waypont/area target path like this one in RT.

[Pandur]

One question do you find such limited periods of supressive fire effective?

well as said this is only a example...how long you do it with what weapon system is up to the person useing it.

but for a tank 5 to 10 seconds are enough for me as i only want a single maingun round per building for example...they can switch back and forth between the same house though, noone forces you to target XX different buldings.

i just extragged here a little to show off what i mean, you could lay such a path with areafire and pause till the end of the scenario if you would like to.

[Blackcat]

Pandur,

Thanks.

With big guns I agree. One round is all I want. It is getting the fire volumes for MG's and 25/30mm guns that I am struggling with.

[stoex]

Pandur: That is actually what I meant but didn't communicate very well. I meant that this effect would be easier to achieve in RT play, but that your "workaround" for WeGo is impressive and imaginative. The only drawback I see is the fact that the vehicle has to "do the dance" for this to work, which may in some situations be undesirable in terms of reducing cover and accuracy of fire (particularly in the case of the Stryker-mounted 40mm. Those grenades go all over the place when fired on the move.

Blackcat: In the case at hand, brief bursts of area fire should be quite effective. Those 40 mike-mikes really hassle enemies in buildings! 3-4 hits on an occupied building are usually enough to kill a couple of men in a squad/fireteam, and certainly everyone on the receiving end will hit the deck pronto. As Pandur says, depending on the weapon used, longer pauses may be in order...certainly longer for a MG, for example. For a MBT main gun, the 10 seconds seem about right again, allowing for a single round to be fired at each area target and reloading in between. Remember that a few seconds pass every time the vehicle moves to the next action spot, as well.

EDIT: beat me, Pandur

EDIT 2: One other thing that favors RT in this particular situation: The long reload pause for the Stryker 40mm. This can cause more or less an entire turn of "dancing" with no rounds fired, PLUS a gunner sticking his head out of a moving vehicle that is defenseless. In RT if the gunner needs to reload, I can just wait it out and then redo the area fire orders without him inviting the opponent to shoot him.

[Secondbrooks]

well thats quiet simple to do allready. i call it the "area fire dance".

looks like this, depending on armament you can give less(105/120/125mm)or more(12.7/14.5mm) pause in between target changes.

As a sidenote i don't like to dance, even in CMSF. Going straight for business is nicer.

So ideal case would be that i don't need to insert those waypoints, less button-clicks. I could make my T-72 to fire multiple targets for minute(s) and they could use 12.7mm MG at one target and maingun and it's coax at another. By that way both targets are under fire all the time. Or firer could be swifting it's fire between targets based on TacAIs choosings and available armament. So forexample MG teams or Strykers might swift their fire between targets and riflesquad might use teams to suppress different positions. Or something like that.

I don't know is it really that important (not counting easiness of use here). As Blackcat i too am bit sceptical about it's ability to suppress and kill anything. So end results might mostly just be loads of powder burned with minimal results. Syrian tanks are up-to it, thanks to their HE-load and 12.7mm MG, but are they only ones?

EDIT: Oh! many have written before me (i such a slob) and all seems to have same feeling about firepower. Oh yeah. 40mm is pretty vicious... Haven't player with Strykers in long time so i have already forgot how vicious the are with 40mm.

[Pandur]

The only drawback I see is the fact that the vehicle has to "do the dance" for this to work

"Eh kloa!"

thats why i use almost exclusively "slow" for the forward movement. and "reverse" over 2 or 3 meters isnt going to do much bad, although its faster then "slow".

The long reload pause for the Stryker 40mm...

when you play WEGO you watch your rapid shooters to guesstimate their remaining ammo. such a areafire dance should not be doen with say 10 granades left in the belt.

and in any case, the blue guys can pull off quiet a bit, so in most cases the guy has to pop up to reload, exactly nothing will happen. a few shots comming towards him, overwatch reacting and cutting down the shooter(s).

although IF you loose the gunner this is not favourable

[Pandur]

@Secondbrooks

well you describe the "optimum", but this is a game...optimally we could split red squads too to a certain degree and do other cool stuff, but we have to work with what we got right now and right here.

and 12.7 and 14.5 are verry well able to supress troops in buildings, no problem at all, even the coax can, and most blue vehicles have 2 or 3 machineguns. a unbuttoned abrams with target light uses two 7.62mm and a 12.7mm...thats verry fine.

[stoex]

when you play WEGO you watch your rapid shooters to guesstimate their remaining ammo. such a areafire dance should not be doen with say 10 granades left in the belt.

I'll hand you that. WeGo replays make it a lot easier to estimate number of rounds fired - almost impossible in RT if you want to see anything else happening!

although IF you loose the gunner this is not favourable

Cue the JAV Team/Sniper Team with no useful ammo left, or the two-man remainder of a chewed up inf fireteam for that case. They are more use spraying 40mm than 5.56!

In other news: "Mei Bier is net deppat!" Cheers!

[akd]

We've discussed this before. Pandur's solution is not really one. Just a workaround for very limited situations, unfortunately.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=86370&highlight=area+fire+arc

[Pandur]

well i didnt said i have a solution to a certain problem i just said how he can get almost the same effect in the game right now. i never said its compftable or perfectly made for that!

Just a workaround for very limited situations

i dont see it as too limited at all.

[c3k]

I find I give area fire orders to units in overwatch (in WeGo), then zoom in on the front units for the next several turns. The result is my overwatch units burning through all their ammo. Ooops. (Another gotcha: using IFV cannon for area firing into an area you're assaulting results in friendly fire casualties. Sorry men - I'll not to keep forgetting that!)

Ken

[Pandur]

using IFV cannon for area firing into an area you're assaulting results in friendly fire casualties...

Oh´rly? ...

[GSX]

I'd LOVE to see an option to target a "circle area" as an option to the standard area attack. What I mean is you click once to area attack and then move your mouse outwards or inwards to create a bigger circle.

Of course in real life a GPMG or such MG would be able to fire in a cone shaped effect or something similar. It would be cool when deployed to allow a GPMG to enter SF mode in certain circumstances.

[noxnoctum]

well i didnt said i have a solution to a certain problem i just said how he can get almost the same effect in the game right now. i never said its compftable or perfectly made for that!

i dont see it as too limited at all.

The biggest problem is that it doesn't work for deployable or extremely slow units (HMGs, AT guns, etc.)

[Secondbrooks]

well i didnt said i have a solution to a certain problem i just said how he can get almost the same effect in the game right now. i never said its compftable or perfectly made for that!

Yes. It's not THAT important, but it is one of the features i'd like to see to improve. My sin is poor fire-management, lately as Bradley's and such are good on causing friendly fire i use it even less.

Well if speaking of total overhauls and total wishful thinking, i'd like to see similar system for direct fire as there are for indirect fire. I set area's. point targets, linear targets at which TacAI chooses by my choices (lets say heavy here, light there, bit of peppering there) who fires at what. Dunno how it would owrk, do i need to assign firing units or can TacAI make those dessisions so that i can be mostly pleased with them... It's probably hard job to code that ability to TacAI, but i think it could be somewhat doable if player assigns firing units.

So basically i could put companys vehicles and MG's to their position assign them as firing units in base-of-fire (or something), then plan targets lien linear target with light firepower to this three line, circular area target with heavy firepower to that field, point target heavy to that building. And then give them order to fire... Yeah... I guess it wouldn't work, but hey i can dream that they would use their fire mostly as i'd like (which in reality probably wouldn't happen).

[Pandur]

yes to each his own, i rather see TCP/IP WEGO with replay "some day" so i can forgett about single player. i am fed up with it actually by now.