Vanilla Scenarios - how do they work?

[Javolenus]

Hi There,

I'm fairly new to CMSF - been playing a couple of weeks. Great game. Basically, I want to learn some 'military tact' and apply it ingame, just to see how I shape up. As I've been playing the game and checking the forum, my knowledge has been gradually increasing. Have also read a few extracts from field manuals, which have helped. I now feel that, in a minor way, my knowledge has increased a bit - at least for a complete novice.

And so I keep returning to the first Brit scenario, in order to measure my progress. But here's the thing: each time I play the scenario my score gets worse! I started out as a rank beginner playing on Veteran and got a Major Victory with 2 KIA and a few wounded. Since then, I've gradually slipped to a Tactical Victory with 13 KIA! Maybe, in the first place, it was just 'Beginner's Luck'? Maybe I haven't actually learned much after all? Or maybe the scenario plays differently each time?

And so, I just wondered how the scenarios actually work? Do they play differently each time or not?

Also, on a broader point, I'd like to ask experienced players: are modded scenarios generally more difficult than the vanilla campaign scenarios? What general comparisons, if any, could be made here?

Thanks in advance for replies.

[flamingknives]

Modded scenarios?

All scenarios, campaign or otherwise, are bespoke and frequently made by the same people.

[George MC]

The scenarios typically have at least two differant AI Plans. This will not affect the enemy OOB, experience etc but it does affect how the enemy AI 'plays' the scenario i.e. how they attack, how they defend, differant fighting positions etc.

As to whether the standalone scenarios in the Brit module (or any module) for that matter are harder than the campaigns ones that a matter for conjecture. In the campiagns your mistakes or cannyness in preceding actions have a direct bearing on your OOB for the following actions. With standalones you have what you are told you are going to get.

Hope this helps

[Javolenus]

Hi George MC,

Many thanks for this - that does throw light on things and explains why the AI seems to react differently in repeats of the same scenario. In fact, that's good. Now all I need to do is improve my performance by hard work! Thanks again.

[George MC]

Hi George MC,

Many thanks for this - that does throw light on things and explains why the AI seems to react differently in repeats of the same scenario. In fact, that's good. Now all I need to do is improve my performance by hard work! Thanks again.

Good luck and enjoy

You might like to check this out: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/

[Javolenus]

That's a useful link, Geroge MC, many thanks - I'll certainly be checking out those manuals. Thanks again and all the best.

[Pandur]

i need to say something about reading FM´s and whatever other real military source you can come by.

if find this at some points contra productive. means you especially as a newbie, are starting to gather information at the place where you gather information the last as a "gamer".

now with that in mind, yes it makes sens and it helps! BUT its too much. i have about 700mb of army FM´s on my HDD, thats about 150000 pages of army FM´s or more. you think i read them all?

even to filter the wanted information out of the roughly 2500 to 5000 pages left when you remove all the stuff you dont want like engeneering manuals, manuals about strategic stuff and procedures, ABC procedures, riot control,...blahblahblah.

i see the army FMs as the point on the "i". you can play the game, you have a idea whats going on and know about what your units can do and not do, at that point you beginn looking over the army FMs just for fun and sheer interesst but not to learn how to play the game.

thinking you could learn to play a virtual game with real world army manuals, describing stuff and procedures often not possible in the game is nonsense in my view.

however now how does one learn to play the game? this is much harder to answer for me then how to not learn it. let see.

as i said in another thread, i think playing a lot is the cure to everything, trial and error.

reading the manual to the game, and last but not least you need a underlaying understanding in how all this military stuff works wich is the largest problem for newbies as here the cat is biteing its tail, the FM´s would come into play here.

but i myself think that if you read through the forums a lot, you find many many answers to youre questions, allready extracted and nicely persented from mostly military sources or first hand gaming or real live expiriences. you see the forum is the the CM brain and library, the extended manual and all this together. other people actually dig up information and post it there just for you to read

also a big help should be looking for newbie threads in specific. hit the CMSF forums part and its sub forums with search words like "beginer" "noob" "help" advice" blahblahblah...

since CMSF is out this saw so many noob thread, and in earlier times when people where more mootivated to answer, the amount of information that turned out was more then now.

so for me it would be, playing, reading the forums, playing, reading the forums, playing, and so on. i think there is no "faster" way to learn what is nessesary.

better come back to FM´s and the stuff, if you feel like it, and are interessted in it. they sure help and enhance youre general understanding of these things, but nessesary to play? no.

and the countless houers i spent just looking through the FMs and reading here a little and there a little did enhance my knowlage about these specific things a lot but i dont think i would miss anything in my "gameplay" when i wouldnt have done it.

so enough bout that. hope this helps in a way.

EDIT

directly on topic, i find that most user made scenarios are "harder" then the stock ones. at least that is verry true for CMSF and CMSF marines, now with the brits this did change. the brit missions are much thougher in average, but i think this is becouse of the brits and not the mission

yes, better dont play the brits in the begining, play the TF thunder campain. this is much more suited for beginners!!! as the americans are too. play the brits if you know what to do, with the americans you gona pawn pretty soon, to put it like that

[Javolenus]

Hi Pandur,

And many thanks for this. I really appreciate this good advice. Thanks for taking time to address these issues - very much appreciated. Thanks also for commenting on Stock/User Scenarios - that's exactly the kind of info I was after. Thanks again.

[tyrspawn]

The most important military concepts to apply to the game are:

* fire and maneuver by base of fire (how to paralyze and destroy the enemy)

- First establish a "Base of fire", this is a group of elements whose job is to remain in a defensive position and actively suppress the enemy position while a maneuver element moves in to destroy it. This manuver is also called "bounding over watch" or "bounding"

* suppressive fires (how to stop the enemy from shooting at you)

- When coming within 300 meters (The EFFECTIVE range of assault rifles and rocket propelled grenades) of a suspected enemy position, hose all buildings and suspected strongpoints with high explosive weapons and machine guns. This will paralyze the enemy, force him to put his head down, and will allow you to deploy for an assault.

* proper use of artillery (what type of fire mission to call in, and when)

Quick tips:

- Medium-heavy intensity (Depending on the power of the artillery piece in question), short duration, armor for stationary vehicles. Consider taking out stationary vehicles with howitzers rather than risking your own vehicles in a firefight.

- Linear fire missions with medium, medium, personnel to clear trenches of infantry

- Heavy, medium, general point fire mission to level buildings

- Don't use area fire missions unless the area is HIGHLY saturated. If there are only a few elements in a 400 meter radius, you will likely only suppress, not destroy them, with an area fire mission.

- Creeping barrage: requires some skill to do properly, but you can use artillery as a shield in linear fire mode to "walk" toward an enemy position. Very useful with personell fire missions used to cover mechanized wave attacks.

- Thoughtfully consider the tactical situation BEFORE you begin, and imagine where you will call in fire missions from. You will need to establish safe observation points (OPs) for forward observers. If you use forward observers, fire missions will be processed and effect on target will arrive MUCH sooner. When forward observers aren't available, use C2 command elements with a radio operator.

* line of sight (no matter how large your force is, if you bring it into a killing sack, a place where the enemy has superior LOS, it will fail)

- "sight in" all possible enemy positions before you advanced by pressing T with your base of fire and seeing if it can fire there. If no, move your base of fire or consider FLANKING. IF your base of fire cant support your manuever element, and it comes under fire, it will take high casualties and possibly be repelled.

* The morale and behavior of human soldiers versus "Fake" hollywood soldiers

- In real life (And good simulators) soldiers don't insanely charge enemy trenches filled with gunners firing at them, they will hit the dirt and probably get shot up. If you can scare the enemy, you can destroy them. Keep your troops in contact with command and support them properly, and you will not get KIA.

* effective engagement ranges

- BLUFOR's small arms are HIGHLY effective at 300 meters, and somewhat effective at up to 500 meters, REDFOR's are about half.

- It is better to engage enemy tanks at extreme range rather than close range. BLUFOR has a huge advantage in this regard, as the rifling and target systems are much more advanced. T-55s-T-72s will rarely hit your tank if it is over 2000 meters away. This is especially true of BMPs, which are sitting ducks against your challengers/abrams at range, and are extremely dangerous in ranges of 500 meters or less, due to the short range rocket systems they have.

- Don't use handheld AT weapons at ranges beyond 150 meters if you want a reasonable chance of hitting the target. 300 meters max.

- On night missions the REDFOR is at an extreme disadvantage, unable to see your forces until they are right on top of them, due to a lack of good optics and NVG systems. Accordingly, you can maneuver more recklessly.

- Establish "OPs" (observation points) at advantageous over watch positions with an extensive fan of line of sight, preferably with forward observers or snipers, so you can see the enemy before they can see you. Whoever sees first wins.

*Learn how to use the javelin

- My biggest mistake when I first started playing was not knowing how to acquire stuff from the vehicles, and also not taking advantage of the javelin. The javelin is basically a "I win" button against enemy armored vehicles and tanks. It is able to engage vehicles at any distance (realistically) and has an extremely low miss and malfunction chance. It shoots up into the air, tracks and finds its target, even if its moving. There is virtually no chance of escaping a javelin once it is fired. It hits the soft top turret armor of vehicles, where the armor is the thinnest and usually results in the death of any REDFOR armored vehicle in one shot.

- It is also invaluable as a room clearing weapon. Is there a platoon of enemy infantry in that skyscraper, and you have not been able to suppress them, but they are occasionally taking pot shot at your forces? No problem. Fire a javelin in the window.

- The javelin can be fired from inside a building, you don't HAVE to be on top of a roof, although you will be able to see more from there.

- Almost all armored fighting vehicles (AFVS; Bradleys, Strykers) have generous stores of the weapon. If you think you are going to roll into an area where your tanks are at risk, and you suspect enemy vehicles or heavy infantry presence in fortified positions, equip 1 or 2 of your sections with javelins BEFORE you dismount them.

- A line of interlocking dismounted infantry sections, in contact with command and supported by spotters, in decent cover, armed with javelins, can reasonably defeat an attack by an armored force.

If you can get these topics down, you will do well.

[Javolenus]

Hi Tyrspawn,

Just read your excellent reply. There is much to digest and I'll read it through again later. But basically just wanted to thank you for taking the time to share this info - a massive help and much appreciated. That's a good tip re. the Javelin! But all this info is good - many thanks again. I just signed off the 1st Brit mission and posted an AAR. Having read this post, I now feel better equipped to deal with the next scenario.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Also beware of RPG teams. They don't seem like much but they are small and quite easy to hide in even brush/undergrowth terrain. If they can get a close range shot at your MBTs flank or rear armour they might manage to kill it. I have done it myself when commanding the Syrians. Beware at night in particular. However, the RPG team will most likely not survive the experience.

With a creeping barrage be careful not to out your infantry too close to the barrage because of the risk of shells falling short and hitting your own men. However, they also need to be close enough behind the barrage to be able to hit the enemy before their morale recovers,

[tyrspawn]

With a creeping barrage be careful not to out your infantry too close to the barrage because of the risk of shells falling short and hitting your own men. However, they also need to be close enough behind the barrage to be able to hit the enemy before their morale recovers,

Yeah, thats why I said its most useful for mechanized attacks, because your dismounts are safe in their AFVs, it's very hard for a danger close BLU-on-BLU to happen, especially if you use personnel ordnance. At my current skill level I like to use creeping barrages on a frequent basis, especially for urban clearing. Nothing like blowing up a line of buildings in a row that I am approaching with a heavy intensity, medium duration, general purpose linear fire mission.

Back the OP:

Something that I probably should have added is important for a beginning to know about another real military concept is DANGER CLOSE fire missions. Danger close occurs when you have a possibility of hitting friendly forces with your own shells. This can happen during the spotting phase of a fire mission (in which spotting rounds are fired to zero in on the target plot in conjunction with corrections from a forward observer) or during the main effect. You want to avoid danger close missions.

Do not use 155mm howitzers within 300 meters of a friendly position. A misplaced shell of this caliber, even one, can cause massive damage to friendly forces, especially if you have sections nearby in the open. If a 155mm shell lands within 50 meters of friendly troops, they will die, and they will PROBABLY-MIGHT die with varying probability up to 300 meters. Scale down minimum ranges for lighter pieces (61mm mortars have the smallest lethal effect and can be used 50 meters or so from a friendly position with reasonable chance of not killing your own troops). AT ordnance has the lowest splash radius. You will have to experience calling in many fire missions to get a handle on the effect of artillery, but the biggest thing to be careful about is the 155mm howitzers due to their lethality.

Note that the British AS-90 155mm is the most accurate artillery system in the game, with the lowest chance of friendly fire events.