Ideas for fixing the memory error

[DanielP]

Hello,

I want to buy this game, but the demo does not run. It gives me a memory error, something that many of the people on this forum have been experiencing. As the game is quite expensive I do not want to purchase this until a workaround or patch is available. To that end it would be useful to gather as much diagnostic data from everyone who has experienced this error.

My system is not short on memory. It is a Vista 64-bit system with 6GB RAM, an Intel i7 Processor with Gigabyte motherboard, a Creative Xi-Fi soundcard and Radeon 4850 graphics card 512MB. I should not be getting memory errors on a system that scores 5.9 across the board on the Microsoft test.

Using the Windows performance monitor via the Task Manager on Vista I have found the following. The computer seems to crash out when the process gets to around 2GB use. when the entire system starts to use about 3.5GB RAM then the software throws up an error blaming lack of memory. However I sometimes get an error saying that it has stopped working, which may not be to do with the memory but probably is. I would interested to see what other people have happening on their system when it crashes out.

Ideas for solutions:

Expand the availalbe virtual RAM. This didn't work for me, but it might work for you guys. You will need to run it manually.

If you are running Vista, run it in Windows XP compatability mode. It might make a difference, but don't count on it as people using WinXP have the same problem.

Switch off anything that could be draining RAM, including windows Aero under Vista.

Make sure you have some diagnostic software running in the background as this will measure the performance of RAM. Vista and XP should have this sort of thing built-in.

Ultimately this is a common or garden memory leak, which is normally a sign of poor programming. Given that it affects all operating systems it can only be that the software has a design flaw. The good news is that the programmers should be able to find the leak and fix it in a later patch, but they have not seemed to isolate the fault and so finding a fix is unlikely without our help.

Please publish any data you can gather on this flaw, including the system you are running and any information on how much RAM is being used when the machine crashes. It may not be helpful, but at least it will show the developers that a lot of people are experiencing this.

One final thought: I will not buy software that does not work. The developers will not get my money until this is fixed. I am motivated enough to write on this forum post to get something done about it, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who have found the same problem with the demo and simply walk away without mentioning it. This is losing sales.

And if you think this is a problem now, wait until Windows 7 comes out next week.

Although I've contacted the clowns responsible for customer service for Combat Mission a couple of times now about this error, no one has responded yet. Out of desperation I am turning to you guys in the community to help find a fix or a workaround.

[phil stanbridge]

I find this a little confusing. I am running Shock Force 1.20 on a laptop, with Vista x64, 4gb ram and an ATI 4330 and it has not crashed once.

I am running Shock Force 1.20 with all modules on a Win 7 desktop (build 7100), with an i5/4GB DDR2 and an Nvidia 275 and it runs perfectly okay. Admittedly there are some 'laggy' scenarios but this is acceptable. It doesn't crash (or hasn't yet!) which is the main thing.

I've tried it on a mates older pc with a Nvidia 260 GTX, and it runs perfectly fine with no crashes. I've also tried the demo on two other pcs, both fine.

I've been able to run SF on all manner of pcs with different components, to varying degrees obviously. But the bottom line I have not seen a single memory error.

So what is this 'memory error' that you and others refer to? I am happy to try and help if possible.

Could it 'possibly' be related to your ATI 4850 and the catalyst drivers? Have you tried using older cats?

[hcrof]

Try to load a big scenario and the game will crash for sure. I have built a number of scenarios that crash in the editor even before adding units. (or finishing the map either!)

I run vista 32 with 8gb RAM (I know I can't use this much), an AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ processor and a GeForce 9600 GT graphics card. Very large maps cause a CTD with my rig.

[phil stanbridge]

I've played most of the British scenarios, some US and couple of smaller marine scenarios. I'm about mission 9 into the British campaign. Are some of those not big enough?

[Guest]

The computer seems to crash out when the process gets to around 2GB use. when the entire system starts to use about 3.5GB RAM then the software throws up an error blaming lack of memory.

It sounds like you're hitting a limit on the amount of memory that can be addressed by a process. You can have 32,000 gigs of RAM, if you've got a 32-bit process running it can only address just shy of 2 gigs of it.

What are you doing in-game when this happens?

[DanielP]

In-game I'm playing the standard, pre-made missions that came supplied with the demo. I've not opened the editor.

It occurs on any and all of the supplied missions. It only happens during this particular game - it does not occur on my other 3D games.

It tends to happen when I'm moving the screen (moving to another part of the map using the map.) It seems to happen after several minutes of play. It once happened when I was actually trying to save the game - the dialogue box opened, but when I pressed enter to save the game it froze. The game did not save.

The symptoms are: the game freezes, the mouse does not move. Hitting CTRL+ALT+DEL brings up the chance to run Task manager, which I do. Rather than quit the game, while its still got the error displayed on the dialogue box, I go into the performance manager and from here I can see that the system is using 3.5GB RAM and the game is running 2GB RAM, the full amount allocated. When I accept the error message the 2GB RAM is freed up and the desktop continues as normal.

There are no other major processes running other than this game.

While I understand there is a limit to RAM, it seems to be only this game that hits the limit, and it can happen within minutes. All the other games I run seem to manage the RAM properly.

Its worth pointing out that sometimes the error message does not relate to the amount of RAM. It occasionally says that the game has stopped working, without any particular reason given at all.

I don't think its the antivirus - I use the latest Norton one, and you can see on its own performance monitor that it barely uses any RAM itself. I have tried disabling the antivirus but that has made no difference. I could try disabling the firewall, I suppose.

Why should it hit the maximum 2GB limit so quickly?

Finally, some people have said that it involves only large maps. In my case the maps have mostly been medium sized. It happens on all campaigns and map sizes, though it may be aggravated by the larger maps.

Finally, I'm running in Windows desktop resolution, which is very high. The other resolutions offered are all 4:3 aspect as far as I can tell, so they would not be suitable. I could try lowering the resolution of my desktop to see if that helps, but that would be a workaround, not a real solution.

I'd like to hear your suggestions for this,

Daniel

[Guest]

Strange question - what version of ATI drivers are you running? There's an issue with OpenGL memory leaks and some ATI drivers / cards, and a hardware-driven memory leak is precisely what your issue sounds like. CMSF uses OpenGL and would be affected. The problem is apparently fixed - for some people - in the very latest drivers.

Unfortunately this is very common - ATI and Nvidia release buggy drivers and game developers take the blame.

[phil stanbridge]

I was wondering about the ATI drivers guys - but something else to consider although it is a belt and braces approach to things. Have you tried formatting the pc and just installing the operating system and then the game? That's what I would do. You never know there might be some corrupted problem somewhere. But that's time consuming I realise.

Alternative idea, try removing 2gb of ram.

[Guest]

I was wondering about the ATI drivers guys - but something else to consider although it is a belt and braces approach to things. Have you tried formatting the pc and just installing the operating system and then the game? That's what I would do. You never know there might be some corrupted problem somewhere. But that's time consuming I realise.

Alternative idea, try removing 2gb of ram.

Lord! Let's check the drivers first. :-) If it's happening on XP as well chances are it's not an OS thing but a hardware thing.

[phil stanbridge]

Lord! Let's check the drivers first. :-) If it's happening on XP as well chances are it's not an OS thing but a hardware thing.

Yeah drivers first, although if you are using different drivers with XP and Vista, and it's still occuring then I would say you have a genuine hardware incompatibility there, which is quite bizarre. You could try removing 2gb of memory (I guess you have 3 sticks) so remove 1 and see if it's the way SF is interacting with 6gb. I've got it running on 4gb fine with x64 but haven't tried 6.

Out of interest what makes are your psu and memory? I'm using a Gigabyte board too, but i5.

[DanielP]

Lot of questions.

First off, the hardware: I'm using a corsair PSU with OCZ memory. Three sticks of matched memory.

Funnily enough, I had considered reinstalling Vista. The problem is that just a few days from now I will be doing an clean install of Windows 7 and the thought of going through the whole process twice is pretty galling. I'm hoping we can fix it before then. To tell the truth, this is the kind of weird system error that is often fixed by a new install, but then why would other people be getting the same thing?

As for the drivers, that's interesting. I am using the 9.9 drivers, the latest ones. I'm reinstalling them now as I write. It would be nice to think it is the drivers, but I have a feeling it isn't. One way to check: has anyone had this memory error with and Nividia card?

I'll let you know how I get one with the drivers now I've reinstalled them. I'm not holding my breath, but its worth a try.

If it really can't be resolved, I might just have to bite the bullet and reinstall the whole OS just to be absolutely sure.

I'll keep you posted.

[George MC]

I'm using a Nividia Geforce 8800GT and i've not experienced the issues you describe. Also running Windows XP Service Pack 3. Rest of my rig is no great shakes and I tend to design and play a lot of very large maps. Be interested to hear how ya get on though.

[Guest]

As for the drivers, that's interesting. I am using the 9.9 drivers, the latest ones. I'm reinstalling them now as I write. It would be nice to think it is the drivers, but I have a feeling it isn't. One way to check: has anyone had this memory error with and Nividia card?

Sorry, by latest I meant 9.10 (they're available to the general public now, yes?). Problem still exists in 9.9.

I have a very strong feeling it is a driver issue - that's what my research supports, anyway.

[DanielP]

Latest for Vista64, as far as I can tell, is 9.9.

Could this be the reason?

Does anyone know where I can get 9.10 Beta's from for Vista64?

[Guest]

You should be able to get them at the link below - guru3d generally has the latest beta drivers for most platforms. The specific drivers linked to include 32- and 64-bit Vista distributions according to the instructions.

http://downloads.guru3d.com/ATI-Catalyst-9.10-Beta--Windows-7-%7C-Vista-(32%7C64)-download-2390.html

As I mentioned, you may still have trouble - some people are still reporting OpenGL problems - but ATI made specific fixes for 9.10 that should deal with the issue.

[George MC]

Meant to add the drivers I am using with my Geforce 8800GT are the 6.14.11.6906 versions and I am running with 2GB RAM.

[Wicky]

... with OCZ memory. Three sticks of matched memory.

presumably 3 x 2GB sticks to get you 6GB total

I thought matched memory came in pairs?!?

mmmm Are you sure your three sticks are indeed matched even if you take out one...

What is Matched or Certified Dual Channel Memory?

Companies like Corsair, OCZ, and Mushkin produce what they call "dual channel" memory, or Dual Channel Kits. These are sold in pairs, so for instance you might buy a 512MB or 2x256MB Dual Channel Kit, which consists of 2 sticks 256MB DDR memory paired together by the manufacturer.

Companies don't just throw two sticks of RAM together to produce these kits, but they don't necessarily produce a totally different batch of RAM either. Testing or qualifying Dual Channel memory might involve something as simple as a QA technician booting up a pair of RAM in a Dual Channel motherboard and ensuring they work together under a set of conditions, or it could be more complicated, including so called "SPD" optimisations and even chip selection (we're inclined not to put much trust in the latter claims).

For your purposes, you should assume that Dual Channel memory is qualified through testing. Companies will claim that every pair of Dual Channel memory is tested prior to being packaged. Corsair memory is even packed with stickers using serialized numbers so you can easily find out which two modules were paired at the factory (OCZ on the other hand, have not been doing this as of the writing of this FAQ, and so if you buy multiple kits from OCZ you might not be able to distinguish which modules is matched with which).

[phil stanbridge]

i7 uses DDR3, and you can get matched triple packs of memory from the likes of OCZ. i7 is really aimed at encoding, and business apps that can make use of more physical memory, so apps like Photoshop et al will really benefit (providing you are also using a 64 bit o/s). Games will not show any benefit with 6gb as most games are still only utilising 2-3gb tops. That's why I went i5. It's still DDR2 and is cheaper plus it's only marginally slower than i7 unless you overclock (which I do).

But back to the problem - I reckon it *must* be down to the ATI drivers. Hopefully 9.10 cats will resolve your issues, but I would be tempted to reinstall. If you are going to install Win 7 (on the 21st/22nd) then it's no major hassle to reinstall Vista and just SF for now as you will be formatting anyway.

[DanielP]

I bought the matched memory on recommendation of my brother who was researching all the prices on them. I needed 6GB, and these were highly recommended and an excellent deal at the time. Incidentally, I don't just play games on my machine - I use it for a Cubase DAW most of the time where fast processing helps keep latency low. Most games don't really need a machine with the specs I've got.

The graphics card is ATI, something I would never normally buy because of their poor reputation with drivers. Mind you, I won this one in a writing contest so I'm using it for sentimental reasons. I'll upgrade to an Nvidia DirectX11 card when I can afford it.

Thanks for the link to the Beta drivers. I'm downloading them now. I had a quick look round on the internet and I did find at least one programming site that suggests there is a problem with some of the ATI opengl drivers dating right back to version 9.6. Looks like there could well be more than a few people put off buying your game going right back to then.

I'm no expert on programming, but it seems OpenGL is a funny choice when you could have used DirectX. It would certainly have made my life easier if you'd gone for the DirectX route. Was there a reason for OpenGL? Is it supported by more platforms or something?

I'll let you know how I get one with the new drivers. Installing them now.

[Guest]

The graphics card is ATI, something I would never normally buy because of their poor reputation with drivers. Mind you, I won this one in a writing contest so I'm using it for sentimental reasons. I'll upgrade to an Nvidia DirectX11 card when I can afford it.

Unfortunately Nvidia has issues as well. My own setup (an 8800GTS) routinely has small problems with games. Right now there are flickering issues in CMSF caused by a driver issue, as well as issues with a few other games. Basically, neither ATI nor Nvidia spend a lot of time making OpenGL work properly.

Mind you, DirectX has problems as well - several legacy DirectX calls have been broken for years now, breaking games left and right for people with select (newer!) hardware configurations. Such as mine, actually. The 8x00 series is particularly bad - for some reason the folks maintaining the drivers for it don't seem to put in much QA time and new releases break more than they fix.

In short, if the 9.10 drivers do the trick, you're probably just fine with what you've got, since at least it's a known quantity.

Thanks for the link to the Beta drivers. I'm downloading them now. I had a quick look round on the internet and I did find at least one programming site that suggests there is a problem with some of the ATI opengl drivers dating right back to version 9.6. Looks like there could well be more than a few people put off buying your game going right back to then.

I'm no expert on programming, but it seems OpenGL is a funny choice when you could have used DirectX. It would certainly have made my life easier if you'd gone for the DirectX route. Was there a reason for OpenGL? Is it supported by more platforms or something?

OpenGL is much more widely supported and portable. It also provides a great deal more control. I'm sure that Charles Moylan (CMSF's programmer - well worth a Google if you're into wargames, as his gameography is impressive) had other reasons for choosing OpenGL as well. If I were going to build a similar game engine, I would use OpenGL, as it usually "just works" - DirectX, while shiny and constantly updated, is fiddly and often-broken. Unfortunately the card manufacturers are doing their best to make OpenGL that way, too, it seems!

I'll let you know how I get one with the new drivers. Installing them now.

Thanks.

[dima]

I'm sure that Charles Moylan (CMSF's programmer - well worth a Google ...

I just googled him. Wow, I didn't know he is an MD in Pediatrics! Cool!

http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Charles-Moylan-MD-7479FAEC.cfm

[Guest]

He is also God to a small tribe of hippies near Smokey Mountain, Colorado. Don't ask him why.

Huh. Last time I googled him I got a bunch of cool articles about his games. Ahh, Google, what a fool you make of me!

[Sergei]

Not only that, he's also a retired judge:

He also works as the masked avenger, but he hasn't had much time for that lately.

[Guest]

Not only that, he's also a retired judge:

He also works as the masked avenger, but he hasn't had much time for that lately.

Fine, fine. Don't google him. Just go here.

http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,16481/

[DanielP]

Problem resolved - installed the 9.10 Beta drivers and I managed to get through a whole mission without a hitch.

So this is interesting: from what I saw this issue has been around since the 9.06 version, so there must have been plenty of people having problems with your game. I guess they just didn't bother to report it.

I wonder if this is also affecting the Nvidia cards?

Anyway, accept my profound apologies for blaming you for the memory leak. Looks like the culprit was OpenGL. I'll let you know if there are any further problems, but for now I'd like to spent a while with the demo to check out the gameplay - and see if I can actually get through a mission!

As a suggestion, you should probably put up a sticky post on this technical forum warning people about potential problems with the ATI drivers. Also, there are no 9.10 drivers officially available - I only managed to get hold of them because one of the posters was good enough to give me a link. Some sort of post explaining it as a known problem would go a long way to reassuring people that your game isn't broken.

Thanks,

Daniel