No Spec-4s in Game?

[LukeFF]

Other than Corporals, I've never seen any Spec-4s in the game. It seems like almost all Army vehicles outside of the headquarters and XO units consist of either an E-3 or E-2 "in command." Oversight or design decision? The E-4 Mafia wants to know!

[Clavicula_Nox]

I've seen them, but I can't remember where. But yeah, I've never seen so many privates in one place outside of TRADOC. Task Force Thunder must have policed up all of the Army's privates for this one.

[Battlefront.com]

The ranks are all correct. The thing is you only see the rank displayed for whoever is in charge of that particular unit or vehicle. Most vehicles generally are crewed by a driver only, with driver and gunner being the second most common. Drivers and gunners are at the bottom end of the rank spectrum. The real commander of the vehicle is usually a dismount, so the proper way to look at this is to check out the rank of whomever is supposed to be riding in that vehicle.

E4s are all over the place, but they generally are "too important" to drive a vehicle, "too unimportant" to lead a dismount unit. Therefore you rarely see their rank displayed unless there's a leader casualty or two. And going by the odds of that happening, it's generally pretty low. For example, a Stryker Rifle Squad consists of:

1 x E6

2 x E5

1 x E4

5 x E3

For the E4 to show up you have to lose the three top ranked soldiers AND not lose the E4 in the process. Odds are this won't happen very often for a Stryker Rifle Squad.

Compare that to the Stryker Weapons Squad:

1 x E6

4 x E4

2 x E3

Chances are quite high that if there is a casualty or two that an E4 will be the new leader, therefore you'd see the E4 rank.

Hope that helps

Steve

[LukeFF]

Hope that helps

Kind of. I see E-4s fairly often (usually in conjunction with a weapons team), but it's always been a Corporal, not a Specialist. Does the game display both ranks or just the CPL one? In my 6 years in the Army, I could probably count on one hand the number of CPLs I encountered. SPCs, on the other hand, were a totally different story. In my unit alone that deployed to Iraq, all but maybe 4-5 of the junior enlisted soldiers were SPCs. Corporals just aren't all that common any more in the Army.

EDIT: I just had another look at my old records. At the end of our deployment, we had 35 junior-enlisted soldiers in my company at the end of our tour. Of those, 23 were SPCs, 1 was an E-1 Private (a screw-up who could never stay above E-2 ), 1 an E-2 Private, and the rest PFCs. IMO, having just one E-4 in a Stryker Rifle squad is a bit too low.

[Clavicula_Nox]

Yeah, Specialist is like the most common rank in the Army. Only total screwups can't make (and keep) Specialist, it just seems weird that Privates are running everything when everyone knows Specialists run the Army.

[Battlefront.com]

Ah! I see what you're saying now. No, the game makes no distinction between Specialist and Corporal since it's only concern is about level of responsibility. So all we really need to do is switch the rank graphic from Corporal to SPC and we're all set

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

All fixed now There are still a few Corporals kicking around here and there, but everybody else who is an E-4 is now a Specialist.

Steve

[SlapHappy]

Ahhhh...the "new" Army. Or is that moniker so outdated now that it's actually the "old" Army?

How about the "constantly evolving" Army?

Or "evolving too damn much" Army?

[tc237]

All fixed now There are still a few Corporals kicking around here and there, but everybody else who is an E-4 is now a Specialist.

Steve

That should work out better, thanks.

The trick here is that in RL a CPL is considered a leadership rank and not just another E-4 member of the squad/platoon.

So a CPL is filling the same position that an E-5 would fill. For every CPL in a squad/platoon there would be one less SGT.

The reason we don't see many CPL's in today's Army is because the points for promotion are probably still at a minimum (at least in most combat arms branches).

In "the old days" when the points were maxed out and promotions were slow, you would give a high speed Specialist his Corporal stripes so that he could assume a leadership position while he waited for his promotion to come through.

Today, any decent, high speed SPC is gonna get promoted faster and if deployed will probably get conditionaly promoted so that he can pin on SGT stripes right away.

Also, back then there were many more CPL's in Armor than in Infantry branch, we needed that extra NCO to man the tank while the TC was away.

[Splinty]

There's a reason SPCs are called "full bird privates"!

[Battlefront.com]

Heh... I haven't heard that one in a while Splinty

I remember years ago when the preliminary Stryker TO&E was put out. A lot of you uniform types said "Where the HELL is the Army going to get all of those E-4s and E-5s?????". Usually someone suggested busting some of the excess Generals and Colonels down to fill in those ranks, but then someone would inevitably point out that nobody wants them to actually be responsible for doing something

Or somefink like that

Steve

[tc237]

what's that old joke?:

"What is the easiest way to make E-4....."

[LukeFF]

All fixed now There are still a few Corporals kicking around here and there, but everybody else who is an E-4 is now a Specialist.

Steve

Excellent! Thanks.

[LukeFF]

I know, old thread, but I forgot to ask about this way back when this was implemented: does the game code any leadership differences between a CPL and SPC, or does the game just see them both as E-4s with a different rank title?

[DaveDash]

I smell a bot

[Homo ferricus]

We don't take KIYN-dly ta yer type 'round here.

[Battlefront.com]

No, the ranks are just there for flavor. What matters more is the leadership qualities of whomever is in control. In WW2 you often found individuals one or two grades of rank lower than the assigned level for that particular position. Just like in real life, rank doesn't determine true combat leadership. You can have a 1st LT in one Platoon being worth of the Congressional Meddle of Honor and another 1st LT in another Platoon who was less competent than even the lowest level NCO serving under him. All very circumstantial.

Anybody who has served in the military knows this intuitively, at least after being in a while. My dad used to say that they would have followed their first Company Commander into any battle situation, but they had drawn straws for who was going to frag their second Company Commander if they ever got deployed. And since my dad was an E-4 think that's entirely on topic

Steve

[rich12545]

Back then, late 60s when I was in, I rarely saw a corporal either. The specialist rank was far more common. In fact, when I got out after three years, I was a Spec 5. Now that's something you don't see much anymore lol.

[LukeFF]

In fact, when I got out after three years, I was a Spec 5. Now that's something you don't see much anymore lol.

That's because it doesn't exist anymore. There's Spec-4 and that's it.

@Steve: thanks. In reality, there really isn't that much of a difference between a CPL and SPC, all things (e.g., competency, etc.) being equal.