Latest on my lock-ups

[Cardinal Fang]

Howdy,

I just spent another frustrating night watching CM freeze on my machine and constantly having to reboot. I checked out 3Dfx site and was happy to see that that new drivers were released just yesterday. I downloaded them and installed them and with great hope I fired up CM. I imediately had a lock-up. :-(

One thing I noticed is that by turning off the trees it seemed to take longer to freeze. I say seemed because frankly I didn't spend a lot of time testing my theory. I also noticed that turning off ambient sound seemed to stop the pauses I was getting as I scrolled. Again I say seem because by this time I was over having to restart my machine.

The end result is that I've updated all my drivers, I've changed the hardware acceleration on both my sound card and my video card, I've uninstalled and reinstalled CM, checked boxes, inchecked boxes, defragged, changed virtual memory, and NOTHING has worked.

I know that CM is a great game, I just wish I could play it. This isn't to slam BTS. I know that they can't possible foresee every combination of hardware and software that's out there. I'm just irritated and frustrated that something about my computer is keeping me from playing CM.

[Maximus]

What are your system specs? Maybe I can see something that could be wrong.

------------------

"I for one, am pretty damn close to Genius"--Ol' Blood & Maximus

[Cardinal Fang]

Thanks in advance for the assistance.

Here's my system,

AMD K6-2 500

64 MG RAM

VooDoo 3 2000 PCI card with 1.05 WHQL drivers (released 6/30/00)

AOpen AW724 sound card with 1040 drivers released 1/21/00

Kenwood 42X CD-ROM drive

Logitech mousse with 8.32 drivers (I don't know the date but they were the latest they had on their site)

I thought I had DirectX 7.0a but I just checked the Diagnostic tool and it said DirectX 7.0. I've recently had to reinstall Win98 a couple of times so I guess I could've miised it but I would've sworn that I downloaded 7.0a. I'm going to check that out and I'll post wether or not it helps.

There are no IRQ conflicts reported.

Thanks again for the assistance

Cardinal Fang

No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition!

[Cardinal Fang]

Howdy,

I do have DirectX7.0a installed.

Cardinal Fang

No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition!

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cardinal Fang:

Logitech mouse with 8.32 drivers (I don't know the date but they were the latest they had on their site)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That right there my be your culprit. There's been some compatibility problems with Logitech mice.

------------------

"I for one, am pretty damn close to Genius"--Ol' Blood & Maximus

[MadDog0606]

You might want to up the amount of memory. I've found with other games that they like more then 64Meg. Memory is cheap (well it is for me). It might help, it sure wont hurt.

Also your Windows swap size might have something to do with it. Experiment with the swap size and see if that helps any. I know Windows says it's a BAD THING for you to change swap size, but you know how big companys are, they lie a lot .

[Cardinal Fang]

Should I try to find a generic mouse driver somewhere? If so, where would I find it? I loaded Logitech's Mouseware 9 to see if that helped. It didn't. It has some nifty features though. I guess I'll have to uninstall that if I load up a diferent mouse driver. I seem to recall that the computer was just calling it a generic serial mouse when all this started but I'm not sure. I've been through so many install/uninstalls that it's all a blur now.

On a side note, it's interesting that now that I've become a member all the messages that I sent earlier that used to say Junior Member now say Member.

On sad side note, it's too bad that the lion's share of my posts that made me a member have been on this forum trying unsuccesfully to get the game to work.

Okay, I'm done whining. For now.

Cardinal Fang

Have Comfy Chair. Will Travel.

[Soma]

Hey, you're not alone !

I think, this lock-ups really sucks (sorry, I hope this was no foul language), but I can't find any solution.

Besides this lock-ups, my ATI RAGE 128 can't display night or fog

My system is:

Pentium III 500

128 MB RAM

ATI RAGE 128

YAMAHA 0nboard sound device

Logitech cordless wheelmouse

(Sorry, can't remember the drivers since I'm posting from work)

Maybe you can find something that match in our systems.

Or maybe some hardware guru can help us !!!

Bye,

Soma

[Private Pike]

I was having problems with lock ups in CM on my V3 3000 but the new 1.05 drivers seem to have solved it. Sorry that doesn't help

[Freyland]

Private Pike, what v1.05 drivers for voodoo3 3000? The 3dfx site only lists 1.04 or 1.04.07 beta. Can you elaborate! (I too am having lock-ups)

Jonathan

[Cardinal Fang]

Soma,

It looks like we have a Logitech mouse and Yamaha based sound in common. One of the error messages I got did refer to a sound file so maybe it's the Yamaha chip that's doing it. Either that or the combination of Logitech and Yamaha. I've no idea unfortunately.

Freyland,

The 1.05 drivers were just released June 30, 2000. The web page header still says 1.04 but if you check the file name it should say 1.05. Here's the URL http://www.3dfxgamers.com/drivers/voodoo3/voodoo3_win9x_new.stm

I hope it helps you.

Cardinal Fang

Have Comfy Chair. Will Travel.

[thepow]

I too am having lock-ups but only in the game requiring me to hit escape to exit to the desktop, with no error messages.

I have a yamaha sound card. I was wondering if maybe the culprit is the sound card after all.

[etsjcp]

I have also been locking up, though, and I have a different setup:

AMD k7 600

128MB RAM

oodles of HD space

Diamond V770 TNT2 Ultra 32MB

Creative Sound Blaster Live! Value sound card.

I've got the latest drivers for the V770, I think, and I also downloaded, but haven't yet installed, the nVidia ref drivers for this card. Just didn't want to mess with it unless I had to.

What else do you think we should investigate? I am only getting about one turn, when I'm lucky, before CM locks up and forces me to CTRL-ALT-DEL.

[Schrullenhaft]

Cardinal Fang - One last desparate attempt to work on your problem.

I plagarized the following from PowerStrip's FAQ page. You will need to download Powerstrip to try this out (though I don't know if the unregistered version will support the following or not):

Powerstrip:

http://www.entechtaiwan.com/ps.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

My graphics card and PCI audio card don't seem to get along. Can the PowerStrip help?

Maybe. Graphics cards can sometimes be too aggressive in holding the bus,causing problems for other bus-master PCI devices,

most notably PCI sound cards. Although most PCI BIOSes have an option where you can specify a default PCI latency, many cards ignore or override this setting. The PowerStrip has an undocumented feature that allows you to specify the latency for each

device on the PCI bus, individually. There aren't any hard and fast rules on appropriate values (a multiple of 8), but as a general

guideline higher values yield better performance at the expense of other devices, while lower values are more appropriate to

systems with multiple PCI cards. If you want to experiment with this feature, you'll need to manually edit your pstrip.ini file as there are no visual controls available. An example follows:

[Latency]

Enable=1

001812D2=80

In this example, 001812D2 is the PCI device (0018) and vendor (12D2) ID for a Riva128, which normally has a very high latency of

248, and which the PS reduces to 80. If you don't know the PCI device and vendor ID for a particular card, you can find out by checking the PS's hardware details screen, which is opened by clicking the [...] button on the Windows page of the PS Graphics System Information dialog box.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By adjusting the PCI latency of your Voodoo card, it may allow the AOpen 724 card to work (with the larger 44kHz sounds). It may be worth a try before getting another sound card.

Also, as far as I know, I believe CM won't work without an audio card. One hearing impaired player mentioned such a problem when they tried to play the demo (I believe it was the Gold Demo). Couldn't get CM to run with the sound card missing.

[Cardinal Fang]

Thanks again for your help Schrullenhaft!

Even if PowerStrip doesn't help with this particular problem it still looks like an interesting porgram.

I've another test I'm going to do. I was talking to a friend of mine with whom I'm having a PBEM game of SPW@W. I had just finished telling him that me and my girlfriend would be over to his place for a cookout on Sunday when suddenly a little bell went of in my head as some synapses closed. I asked him what kind of sound card he had and if it would be okay if we switched. He said he had some version of a Sound Blaster and that it would be okay if we switched cards. He also said that since he's planning on upgrading his machine soon that there was a good chance I could just keep it. The only thing he didn't know was if his sound card was a PCI card or not. So hopefully by Monday I'll have a different sound card and I'll be sure to post the results.

Cardinal Fang

Have Comfy Chair. Will Travel.

[etsjcp]

Fang, I'd be interested in that sound card report. Of course, I don't have the same sound card .... I suspect the prob might be in the drivers for my vid card...

I have a separate, bootable Win2000 partition, and I installed it there. Of course I get only software-based graphics, and no hardware acceleration. That's why I wanted to try it.

I was able to play 7 turns of a Quick Battle without crashing; it never crashed, actually. I just quit to come back to Win98 and my network connection.

So now I'm wondering if I want to futz with my vid card drivers.... I wish there were a way to force CM to just play in Software mode, because I find the graphics just fine in that mode.

[davo00]

Fang,

I have been having similar problems only on games with LOTS of units.

My setup is about the same but PIII with 128MB RAM. Same Video card.

I have WIN2K as well.

In my experience, after playing the game for about 30 minutes, the helmets of the soldiers, and the wheels of vehicles turn WHITE, then in about 2 minutes later the game crashes...

When I relaunch, the game things that the CD is not present and I have to re-boot to allow me to restart CM.

Anybody else seen this?

dk

[ironcross]

win 2k has still a lot of faults,its not a stable platform for games as win 98 2nd edition.Its another rushed job by microsoft,if i was you id overwrite win 2k with win 98.

It amazes me that microsoft release their operating systems before their up n running.

[etsjcp]

new, encouraging report:

I found the properties panel for my vidcard, a v770 tnt2, and was able to disable 'fog tables' and to take down the '3D Turbo Gauge" down a notch from 5 to 4.

Since someone else [ASLVeteran?] mentioned fog tables as a suspected problem, I thought I'd try this, and, so far, so good.

Now I'm going to bump up the 'Gauge' to 5, but leave fog tables off..... I'll let you know what I find. BTW, I noticed no changes in CM's appearance. The only difference I noticed is that it's not crashing anymore.

[Cardinal Fang]

The saga continues......

Here's the latest. I was going to switch sound cards with a friend of mine and see if that made a difference. Well, I was over at his house and I had removed his sound card, I was a little dissappointed to see that it was an ISA card and not a PCI card but other than that I was looking forward to trying it out. I asked him what kind of card it was and he said it was a Pro Audio Spectrum 16. I said that's cool as long as it's not a Yamaha based card. He looks at the card and says "Uh oh". "What?" I say. "This chip says Yamaha on it" he says. "Damn" I say. I take a look at the card and sure enough there's a chip on it that says Yamaha. I figure that if it's a Yamaha problem switching with this card is pointless so I put his card back in. After the cookout and on the way home I remember that I have an old ISA card sitting in my closet and I figure I'll try that since I already had my sound card out. I find the card and put it into my system. Since it's an ISA card Win98 doesn't detect it on boot. I decide to try CM without the sound card installed. To my surprise the game starts. It lasts a whole two turns before it locks up solid. Depressed but still a tad hopeful I tell Win98 to look for new hardware. It manages to find the card and install the drivers for it. It's an old Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA card. The system boots up and everything seems fine. I start CM and hit the GO! button. The turn plays out. I hit the DONE button to try another turn and guess what happens? Yep it locks up. At this point I'm too numb to be that upset, after all I've been trying to get the game going for weeks now. I yank the card, figuring if I'm going to have a card that doesn't work I might've well have a new one. As I'm putting the Sound Blaster card aaway I think to look at the card. Sure enough there's a little chip on it that says Yamaha.

Sad really.

So, do y'all suppose it's still the sound card ( I would think so considering that the demo works and the only difference is tha the sounds are 22Mhz instead of 44Mhz) and what cards are out there that aren't based on a Yamaha chip?

Could it be maybe the mouse driver?

Maybe I'll give PowerStrip a try next.

Sadly,

Cardinal Fang

[Schrullenhaft]

Cardinal Fang - Actually the Yamaha chip that you're seeing on the Soundblaster ISA card is the standard OPL3 sound chip that is an industry standard for FM synthesis sound. Your AOpen 724 is based on a Yamaha DSP sound chip, a competely different chip.

So the SoundBlaster ISA should have worked for you if the problems you are having were related to your PCI soundcard. Have you performed an uninstall on your AOpen/Yamaha drivers ? You may also want to check for any conflicts in the resource allocation (IRQs, I/O addresses, DMA, etc.). The Vibra 16 should be plug-n-play, but there is always the possibility that something is conflicting.

[Cardinal Fang]

Schrullenhaft,

Now I'm even more confused. I didn't think to check for an IRQ conflict with the ISA card. I did however make sure that the AW724 drivers were removed before installing the VIBRA. I wasn't surprised to find the VIBRA card wasn't plug-n-play since I thought that ISA cards weren't plug-n-play. When I had WIN98 look for non-plug-n-play cards it had no trouble finding it and installing drivers.

But since reinstalling the AW724 something new has been added. I decided to turn the sound card acceleration all the way down and then take the video card acceleration down one peg at a time. With video down one it still locked up. When I took down two the game looked really ugly, it had started in 640x480 and I had no fog and no transparent buildings. Also it looked like it was at 256 colors instead of 16. However I did run through 7 turns with out a lock up. There's no way I was going to be able to play with the game looking like that. I also had no tracers and the fps seemed to be about 3. I then remembered etsjcp saying they had luck with turning off the "fog tables" well my VooDoo 3 2000 doesn't have a setting for that but I decided to try a DYO battle instead of St. Annes Chapelle (which is tiny but includes fog). I set all the accceleration back to max but turned off the something in the sound card under Direct Sound that was under a sub heading called "secondary buffer" called "Disable 3d". When I started the game I was surprised that although it looked better I still didn't have transparent buildings and the fps was still low. I ran a couple of turns and there was no lockup. I then exited the game and moved the prefs file out. I set my display at 640x480 and went back into the game. It looked good and, I was suprised to find out, it ran fine! I played a quick 9 turns and there were no lockups! That makes me htink the fog is a problem but I'd had lock-ups in other scenarios that had no fog.

I'm sure this made no sense what-so-ever and you're probably as confused as I am. I'll try so more experiments with other scenarios and see what happens.

Is anybody familiar enough with the VooDoo card to guess what settings might work?

A very very confused Cardinal Fang

[Pfalz XII]

Your Eminence, Mr. Fang,

I have a Voodoo3 2000 PCI card. Here are some things you can try. Go into Control Panel, select Display, and go to 3dfx tweaks. Make sure your Direct3D image quality settings for both alpha-blending and video display are set to "automatic." Also while in Display, click on Settings, advanced properties, and check out what refresh rate your card is set for. Try lowering the refresh rate and see what effect that has on CM. Good luck.

[Cardinal Fang]

Pfalz XII,

I have the latest drivers and, I assume the latest 3dfx tools (1.05 drivers) and although I see an alpha-blending, which is set to automatic, I do not see a video display. Here's what I have under Direct3D:

3d Filter Quality - set to automatic

Alpha-Blending - set to automatic

Level of Detail Bias - set to 0

Z-Buffer Optimization - set to Enable

I've really no idea what any of that means.

The refresh rate is "optimal". I've really no idea what the refresh rate is for my monitor. It's an old Dell 17" and I've never been able to find out the information on their web site. The monitor setting I use is the Dell VS17 and I found that setting through trial and error. Even with this monitor chosen I have to recenter the screen if I go to 640 x 480.

An update on the lock-ups. I started a the scenario "A Walk In Paris", it's listed as medium in size, and I had no problem running through 4 turns. I then exited out and started up St. Anne's Chappele which is the scenario that kept locking up. I turned off the weather and played through 5 turns with no problems. I turned the fog back on and almost immediately had a lock-up. Shouldn't my VooDoo 3 2000 be powerful enough to show the fog? If so could it be the combination of fog and the sound card or something?

Maybe I could just ship my computer to BTS and see if they can figure it out. Now THAT would be customer service!

I keep meaning to ask you, Pfalz XII, if you play Red Baron 3D. I ask because of your name of course.

Cardinal Fang

Actually Got To Play A Few Turns Of CM

[Guest JAZZA]

I've been having lock ups using the demo and i never get past a couple of minutes of play,after reading your post i went into direct x diagnostic tool and under the display2 tab which is for my voodoo 2, i disabled direct 3d acceleration,then went and played CM and had the same experiance,slow frame rate, bad colours etc,but no lockups,actually got to play a full game of chance encounter..woohoo.I don't what this means though,new video card maybe?