New Scenario "Counter Attack at El Derjine"

[snake_eye]

Just a preview of some shots taken from the scenario "A Counter Attack at El Derjine", following the previous one "A Crossroad at El Derjine". It will be posted in a day or two.

The battle is played on a 2.5km² map. You will have to defend the town and the airfield against the Red counter attack. The open ground and the vast expense will able TOW and Sagger to be used the way they should; The criss cross firing of both is quite a sight to watch. Don't forget to play. I think that real time is the setting for getting the most pleasure of the 2 A.I red plans. However, I even tried it playing the Red and despite the fact that no Blue A.I has been made and that I knew the Blue side position, I really enjoyed it and got surprise with AH64 straffing, rocketting and firing Tow's at my BMP3. The Blue side did it by himself that was not planned. After that who said that the A.I isn't efficient ?

[snake_eye]

To be able to have an idea of the battle, a look at the tactical map and at the Blue Order of Battle will give you an idea of the fight to come.

You will face a strong opposition, but you can still win when your reserve is released within an hour. You will have to fight and hold the line, being helped by the large minefield preventing and or retarding the ennemy on its way to the airfield and or El Frid Hamlet. You will have to block a road winding through a deep gap at Sidi Barani pass (an Afgahnistan ground by excellence) and prevent the enemy to get through it. Anyway don't think that it will be easy, the 2 A.I plans have not been made for that.

A sure thing, you will like it and have plenty surprises as I did (even knowing the setting) through the testing.

Blue against Red A.I in solo. Human against Human and even Red against the Blue ( I tested it as said earlier) despite the fact that they don't have any A.I can be played.

Have fun when it will be release in one or two days at the most and let me know. That way, I shall be able to take it in account in the next battle that will be a campaign starting at El Derjine and going North. Some landscaping shots will be posted soon. You will see a dam and pass with steep cliffs. A no tank land and rather a grunt land for team helo assaulting the top of key mountain to overwatch teams searching in the narrow valleys.

Cheer

[abdecken5]

This looks very interesting indeed! I cant wait till its ready snake eye

[snake_eye]

This looks very interesting indeed! I cant wait till its ready snake eye

It is uploaded since yesterday evening on the repository.

Cheer

[saunders1953]

Hi snake eye,

It's not there. I checked both the Base Game and Marines, in the scenario sections. Nada. Looking forward to trying it out.

Mark

[saunders1953]

Ooops, sorry, disregard that. I found it at the bottom of the page where the new listings are. I hope to try it today.

Mark

[snake_eye]

Hi snake eye,

It's not there. I checked both the Base Game and Marines, in the scenario sections. Nada. Looking forward to trying it out.

Mark

Look in the repository CMSF Marines just under the AT14 Avoidance Range scenario.

It is located in the opening view and not in the scenario why ? I don't know.

Or use the short cut clicking on the file name of the new files listing on the left of the page.

Cheer

[purpheart23]

Good scenario snake eye. I got a total victory on elite but I took close to a hundred casualties and lost a good deal of my mech inf carriers.

*************spoilers?*****************

I think if you had a force show up that could maybe match the 3rd BN's firepower or maybe reduce the units to a platoon of abrams instead of two it might fight out a lil closer. Just my two cents, excellent scenario though and a gorgeous map.

[snake_eye]

Good scenario snake eye. I got a total victory on elite but I took close to a hundred casualties and lost a good deal of my mech inf carriers.

*************spoilers?*****************

I think if you had a force show up that could maybe match the 3rd BN's firepower or maybe reduce the units to a platoon of abrams instead of two it might fight out a lil closer. Just my two cents, excellent scenario though and a gorgeous map.

Don't forget that there are 2 A.I plans. Believe me it doesn't work always the same, even for the same A.I. I have had very different results troughout the numerous testing. Try it again, I bet that you will be surprise and make it maybe on the hedge.

Thanks for your good comments

[handihoc]

Hi Snake Eye,

I just played the first battle, Crossroad. Absolutely love the map, and really enjoyed playing it, but have to say I was disappointed to get a Total Victory after less than one hour's play. It's the kind of battle I love, where much planning, use of combined arms and careful tactics are needed. I played WEGO, Iron, level, and was having fantastic fun, but. . .

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******SPOILERS***** *

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I kept my force well hidden, except for putting javelins on crests, running back to resupply as necessary. Bombarded high ground with mortars at the start. When the enemy armour attack came, the javelins, followed by TOW Humvees and M1s, annihilated them in some very exciting fighting with the loss of one M1, one TOW Humvee, two M1114s and an M707.

Then I quickly withdrew the M1s behind the crests to avoid hidden ATs, kept the javelin teams and snipers in overwatch, and sent a platoon of inf forward across the open ground to take the first objective (Bronx, if I remember correctly). I also sent a couple of AAVs forward into concealment on the left of the ruined roadbridge, and debarked a squad plus snipers to the roadside. Any enemy infantry spotted were hit with artillery fire until my inf reached Bronx and were able to engage as well.

The infantry achieved that with 7 casualties.

And then the enemy surrendered.

So my overall verdict is this is a superb map and was almost a truly great battle, but I was really looking forward to fighting my way onto the high ground and then getting troops into the built up areas for some dirty MOUT. I really recommend toughening up the resistance so the player gets to make the most of that map.

I'm gonna go on and play the second battle now, and will let you know how it goes. I really think this could be an excellent campaign, and you've plainly put a lot of work in. Just needs a little tweaking, for me at least.

[snake_eye]

That is why, your comments are so valuable. You are right about the enemy surrendering, at a time you thought they could still fight on a bit longer. The Crossroad has 2 A.I Plans. Have you seen their differences ?. You wrote that they were attacking

(If they were attacking against El frid and got fried -that explain partly that they could not defend El derjine so well). That is why, I could make shortly a slight correction to the red movements and or tweak the Victory factors. However, It seems that the results aren't the same when played WEGO, which I do not do.

Since, I tried Real Time Elite, I only play it that way. try it, it really makes a huge difference. You have to fight, like it would more or less happen in a real fight. A choice at one moment is good and even excellent, then you discover on your right that things are not going the way you expected them to go. Everything, you planned five minutes ago, are going down.

For the MOUT fighting, due to the time limit, it is not feasible to reach the town and assault it, if the enemy is defending from the houses and or around them. It takes around one hour to get there. If the red are defending, it will take more time. Around an hour and a half at the least. The losses are very high, because they are waiting for you. You won't have enough troops left to go forward and not enough time to regroup them. I have tried it at first and I had to dismiss it in the scenario.

The Mout fight is possible in the Counter Attack scenario, since the Blue are on the spot. Let me know about it and if you find R.T good for you. Give it a few try.

Thanks again for your AAR

Cheer

P.S The 1st map of the coming campaign is done and I shall start the 2nd one in 2 weeks. All your AAR will help me in finding the good equilibrium for what should be a follow up of good battles.

[BlackMoria]

Warning - contains spoilers for one AI plan. You have been warned....

AAR - Counterattack at El Derjine

Blue - Real Time Mode - Elite

First off, this is a huge map, so I took the time to study the ground carefully and pick firing positions and fall back positions and establish my kill zones. Fortunately, there is a lot of blue setup areas so one can setup somewhat to accomodate whatever your plan is. The down side is that some of your forces, namely the forward forces can't be moved in setup because they are in non-blue setup zones.

Setup:

I elected to move most of my M2s and Strikers to hull down postions so I set up with that intent in mind, even though for most of my forces would have to 'run up' to my firing positions using covered ground. I prepositioned one of the AT Striker platoons on various hill features in the rear. The other AT platoon is not moveable on setup (it is designed as reserve in the scenario notes, so it is not placeable on setup) which is a pity but I gave them orders to move out to another location.

I outfitted all the squads with Javelins, as I expected the counterattack to be principally mechanized forces and placed the squads in multi-story buildings or on high ground in existing ditch networks.

I placed my forces to anticipate where the enemy will come in. Since a 'river' runs across my frontage, the enemy had three crossing points, so I knew which way he was coming. The downside was the two of the three crossing are in dead ground to the intial deployment which meant that I can see the enemy approaching the crossings but unless I move assets forward, I can't kill vehicles on these crossings to impede his advance. I designated the northernmost crossing 'Silver', the middle bridge as 'Gold' and and the southernmost crossing as 'Bronze'.

The Battle:

Right off the start, my observers and scouts are beginning to reporting clusters of contacts. The cluster of most concern to me is the one right near Silver on the north edge. Damn, I was hoping all the forces were coming from the east edge so I would have time to get forces rolling up the the hill feature in my northern AoO which were to cover Silver. It was going to be a race to get into position.

Another cluster of contacts where on the road in the NE corner and the last group of contacts were on a N-S road on the eastern edge of the map.

In no time, my AT vehicles were getting shot at from the force near Silver as they reversed into better hull down positions. The volume of AT fire was staggering - mostly likely a company of BMP! Fortunately, all the AT fire shot by overhead or slammed into the ground near the two AT vehicles being targetted with no hits. The two AT vehicles opened up on the northern BMPs as they moved to the crossing as a 120mm mortar mission was plotted in anticipation of mostly likely exit point out of the crossing. Soon, javelins from some of my squads rained death on the BMP group and the casualties impeded the movement of the force into the safety of the low ground at the crossing point, allowing me a longer window to engage them.

The scout units in the SE and the most eastward of the my forces were ordered to hunker down and observe. Shortly, I was getting a clearer picture of the enemy forces. The NE group was BMPs and the eastern group was T72 tanks. The number of contacts implied a probable company of each. Wonderful. :eek: A motor rifle battalion.

The tanks started moving towards the south, most likely to cross Bronze. I was concerned about this development since I had only a few scout detachments in the area, nothing to slow the tanks down. Fortunately, if they headed for the canyon route, I can bottle them up at the western end and prevent them from breaking out to open ground. I moved some of my reserve to the western end of the canyon to greet them.

The NE BMP group as slow to move out, so my second 120mm mortar battery did a linear mission on their route. I deduced that this group most likely was going to cross Gold and full on into the teeth of my defences, so I was less concerned with this group.

Silver was my concern and a platoon of M2s gained the high ground. One edged forward and was destroyed by a hail of 30mm cannon fire. @#$%&, there were alot of BMP 3s there. I sent the remaining two M2s to see if they could set up keyhole shots and bag some of the bad guys without a firestorm of return fire.

One of moments that snake_eye must live for. Three BMPs appeared from the north into my rear area. I started to panic, if this was another company of BMP, I was so screwed as most of my defences were forward of the road they were coming down.

My most gallant AT twosome on the hill which were trading shots with the BMP company at Silver had claimed about 6-7 BMP with the loss of only one AT vehicle. The surviving vehicle opened up on the 3 charging BMP in the rear, claiming one with the first shot. A hasty blocking force of two M2s maneuvered to stop the remaining two BMP and a host of infantry that that started to appear out of the wood near the map edge. Fortunately, the remaining BMPs from this end run were eliminated and the M2s' cannons made short work of the infantry trying to cross the open ground.

About this time, the NE BMP company were charging at the bridge, their numbers 4 shorter due to a my mortars and were engaged by TOWs and Javelins. Astonishing, the T72 group which I thought were going for the canyon run changed direction and headed obliquely to the NW across my frontage, straight through the kill zone of the three AT carriers of my reserve who took up positions looking across the minefield. The tanks look like they were going for the middle but only 2 made it to cover, the rest destroyed by TOW2 fire.

The middle BMP group faired just as poorly as they attacked across the bridge and into the teeth of my defences. It was a wild fight for several minutes with TOW2, javelins and handheld ATs being used to stop the enemy attack. A lone BMP and T72 stood stopped in ground which my observers could see but weapon systems could not but by this time, the tubes were run dry of ammunition.

Thinking I had stopped the counterattack and now I just run the clock out, my heart fell as another two company groups of T-72 entered. At this point, I had lost 2 AT carriers and 4 M2s, the javelins were all used up and most of my remain ATs and M2s had about 3-4 TOW shots left. Not good, not good at all! I prayed for the arrival of the Apache CAS and the 155 tubes but they still had not arrived. It was going to be tight.

Strangely, the northern tank reinforcements, which appeared near where the BMP attack on Silver was defeated, ran across the entire frontage of my defences, showing no interest in crossing at Silver or Gold but seem intented on heading for the canyon group. They lost about 4 tanks doing so.

The eastern tank reinforcements looked like they were going for the canyon run. There was nothing I could do since only a few scouts dets were in the area and it would be death to roll the two M2s out of covering ground to face off with some 12-15 tanks. I had already lost one scout squad in the area due to them being spotted and getting hammered by a company's worth of T72s and BMPs earlier in the battle and the remaining scout squad remained hidden with eyes on the tanks.

I was out of options. I elected to keep the M2s hidden and nail the trailing tanks from the rear as they entered the defile. I had one AT carrier and a few infantry squads waiting at the western end of the defile. With luck, I reasoned I could trap the tanks in the canyon and my airpower, when it arrived, would make short work of them.

I never got to see how that impromtu plan would have worked as I got a Total Victory at this point before the tanks could enter the defile. Amazing, since the 155mm arty and the Apaches were a no show (which meant I got the victory in under 50 mins of the 2 hour time limit since that was when the Apaches were supposed to show up).

My losses:

34 KIA / 15 WIA / 7 Armored Vehicles

The Syrian losses:

348 KIA, 67 WIA, 12 Tanks, 38 Armored Vehicles

Nice intense battle, snake_eye.

I had two heart attack moments - when the 3 BMP and infantry showed up in my rear area. I though another company push was going to come through this area and I was not in a position to hold off an enemy force of this size since most of my forces were more forward. Fortunately, it was only a platoon attack and I dealt with it but I had to have two M2s off the main defence to counter a possible other push from the that area.

The second was the arrival of the tank reinforcements. My ammo was getting critical at this point and my javelins were either all gone or very nearly so and I had about 1/3 of my TOW ammo left. It was not looking good.

I think I could have stopped the tank attack if they went into the canyon since I think I could have sealed them in with casualties. But I have no idea that is where they were going since the scenario ended with a total victory for me at that point and the Apaches and 155 support hadn't arrived. Hopefully, they were not far off if the game had continued but it was starting to look grim.

Pros: Huge map allowing lots of tactical possibilites and nice variety of terrain. Very aggressive enemy force and lots of them, making for a real drag down in the mud fight. You are right into it from the start and the action doesn't let up until the end.

Cons: Setup options and Enemy attack choices. For setup options, part of the force can't be moved. No biggie as I understand the rational from the scenario briefing, but it would be nice to completely be able to deploy all my forces.

The intial tank force went one direction (headed to the southern route) and then abruptly changed direction and moved obliquely across my frontage and got shot up as a result. The northern tank reinforcments head clear across the map across my frontage and likewise got shot up. Not sure what they were up to but it struck me as odd behavior, rather than going for the nearest crossing point. Not that I am complaining. I would rather shoot tanks as they are going across my front rather than shooting at them when they are full on charging into me.

I will certainly play again to see what the other AI plans will show.

Excellent scenario, snake_eye. Kudos to you.

[snake_eye]

First of all, thank you, BLACKMORIA,for such an exhaustive and precise AAR. Having tested the scenario and the A.I plans more than thirty times, I must recon that you did a very careful and judicious setting of the tracks and in particular of the AT, despite being constrained of moving a platoon out of the Laager after the setup period.

I was pleased to see you taken aback by the 3 BMP’s getting in your back. This is war isn’t it ! More seriously, it demonstrates that we can not get an overall picture of what is going on. That’s what the Fog of War is meant. It adds some thrill to the game. By the way, they were coming from “Silver.

You are right in your option to block the T-72’s in the Sidi Barani pass. However, in some testing few of them got through, but most of the time they are going through the minefield. As for the others getting across your frontage field of view, that doesn’t happen all the time.

Your option to block the tracks while they are in the fords and or bridge areas is sound. As a matter of fact, the A.I has a tendency to slow the tracks and have them hesitate when under fire in such a field environment. They are trying to get around the tracks being cooked at a slow pace, instead of getting the hell out of there.

You won in 50 minutes flat, so I did in testing and in even less time. 01:39:59 remaining on the counter, with a surrender of the Syrians and a Total Victory with Blue

17 KIA, 6 WIA, 0 MIA, 0 T.L, 7 A.VL, 0 O.V.L against Red

308 KIA, 28 WIA, 0 MIA, 5 T.L, 35 A.V.L, 0 O.V.L

and another time with 57:48 remaining for a Major Victory and the surrender of the Syrians with Blue

101 KIA, 24 WIA, 2 MIA, 7 T.L, 20 A.VL, 1 O.V.L (The tanks were lost while attempting to reinforce the remnants of the beleaguered Mout platoon in El Derjine – The flat field expense around Henderson airfield is a no tank country) against Red

298 KIA, 52 WIA, 0 MIA, 10 T.L, 33 A.V.L, 0 O.V.L

These casualties are given, just to illustrate something I have found during the testing. Once, I had found the setup that I thought would be best according to the scenario and the A.I, I played in Elite Real Time, I played the battle quite a few times, with slight alteration of the setting that you discovered at the game opening. I have had quite different results from time to time and got myself quite a few times completely leaked by the A.I and on the verge of running away and or surrendering.

The victories, I have had and that I looked upon in the snapshots I made during testing (more than 800) are roughly obtained a quarter of the time.

My analysis is that if you score hits in the initial 20 minutes sufficient to maul down the tracks, you end up with a significant chance of the Syrians surrendering. More, to say, if the Syrians KIA are heavy and yours low, their surrender is feasible.

I shall appreciate your upcoming comments on the other A.I and needless to say, thank you again for your precise AAR which is invaluable for future scenario improvement .

Cheer

Snake Eye

[MeatEtr]

Need the Marines module or not?

[snake_eye]

You need the patch V 1.11. For sure it won't work, with a lower patch.

It has been made with the Marines module installed on my HD. Does that imply that you must have it ? I don't think so, since there are no marines units involved in that scenario.

Cheer

[snake_eye]

Sorry, after looking back at my Red OOB, there are BMP-3's. So, You must have definitely the Marines module installed.

BMP-3's have been available only on the Marines module. You can try to load it, but if you don't see it listed on the battle game, you'll know for sure.

Cheer