Pooh and Tigger need help!

[Thomm]

After completing the Marines Campaign via the mountain route, I went back to play the remaining two scenarios, the one with objective "Pooh" and Milk Run.

However, despite careful saving and playing, I appear to be unable to win the "Pooh" mission. The dispersed ATGMs and enemy strongpoints just make my life miserable.

In the second attempt I reached the phase line and held the center compound objective, but find it impossible to move close to Pooh or Tigger.

How do you guys manage this? Smoke? Advancing on the left flank? Right hook?

I know this is an old topic, but this is really an interesting mission, and I only now came across it!

Best regards,

Thomm

PS: This is truly a showcase battle with regard to how well CMSF handles large numbers of units and how difficult it is to overcome a well-prepared Syrian defense even with a superior force!

[Other Means]

Spoilers of course:

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Pooh:

I recce'd up the left hand ditch and extreme right hand side, stopping when I met any resistance. I always recce with 2 teams - one 50m behind the other so I can see what killed them. I got stopped on the left by what looked like an ATGM so I had the survivors stop and tried to sneak round with the surviving team. I went more to the middle and met more resistance there so dug in.

I had a lot of joy on the right so I re-enforced there when I got my first lot of re-enforcements. I was going fine there until I hit the buildings with the damned minefields (these are what caused me most casualties). So I took up the reverse slope there with my AAVs and went up the areas on the left I had under observation.

I got a lot of spots on his ATGMs firing at distributed infantry teams and could bring down arty and airstrikes on his centre and back areas. I had an FO on the left and an air spotter in the middle as close as I could get without being under fire. These did most of the heavy lifting with the Apaches knocking out a lot of his hidden armour. The rest I took out with Javelins.

When I got to the brow of the left hand hill I shoot-n-scooted my recce armour to bring out the ATGMs. I had a lot of teams on the crest to spot smoke etc. From there I either supported with fire from the right flank or took them out with arty. I don't think I took a single ATGM hit to armour although I did lose some to RPGs.

When I got my heavy armour I put them on the crest of the left hand hill. When the Syrian heavy armour came it was a bit of a shooting gallery. One tank made it to the centre I think.

I then pushed up on the left until I had clear LOS over to the right again leaving my tanks in overwatch. I put the rest of the AAVs there too.

I then pushed forward from the right. I got to the building complex on the extreme top right and re-enforced with a sniper team and a Javelin team. The Jav team took out the final enemy armour and I had support from both flanks to the centre. I assaulted the centre areas with massive support. Basically levelling anything I heard a shot from. The AAVs are great for clearing trenches.

Ended then with a Total Victory - great scenario.

[handihoc]

It's a great battle, sure enough, and a very tough one.

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*****BIG SPOILERS*******

First thing to do (at least, how I played it) is to get your sniper and recon teams forward under cover of darkness to good sighting positions ready for the dawn. As the sun comes up they will begin to spot a bunch of waiting AFV's, and occasionally infantry. Those AFVs can then be taken out with your choppers.

I put a sniper team up on the hill on the left, another on the roof of the two storey building a little further forward at the base of the hill. Other than that, I didn't advance on the left at all.

Recon advanced in the centre-left, just beside the road (on its right), and occupied the buildings there. Careful, though, to put them forward in short run/hide spurts, as the enemy is expecting you there there, and don't advance the LAVs until your choppers/arty have killed the enemy AFVs that are overwatching that approach.

On the far right I had a recon team advance past the main buildings into the woodline (watch our for mines!), where they had a good view into town and behind, spotting numerous hidden tanks and AFVs, and later enemy reinfs. More snipers moved to the nearest buildings (roofs) in the centre. All of these recon and sniper units I gave Hide orders. Their job is purely spotting at this stage. If they give away their positions they'll suffer badly and you'll lose vital opportunities to take out hidden vehicles.

Also get your javelin team and arty spotters onto the rooftops of the nearest buildings on the right of the road. Keep them hidden, and keep the javs with good resupply - they're going to be up and down those stairs a lot when things take off.

Don't try to advance with your main forces until your copters have taken out as many vehicles as possible. Those vehicles are well positioned and deadly.

After that it's a slow, methodical advance, mainly into the centre. Infantry, split into teams, moving first, searching out and engaging more enemy positions, with your tanks and AFVs in close support. Safeguard the M1s though. You need them.

I've forgotten which victory location is which, and accidentally deleted the startup battle after playing, so can't go back in without replaying the whole campaign.

But to a large extent you can ignore most of the buildings on your right - at least until quite late on. They are filled with a variety of hidden nasties, but are not occupying a victory location. Just be careful you don't accidentally stray into their LOS.

As soon as anything shows, hit the site with artillery, air or heavy weapons, rather than sending valuable troops forward. Artillery and air support play a major role throughout this battle, as does smoke.

Also, make sure your javs, a couple of M1A1s, TOW humvees etc have good lines of sight for the crossroads area, as a major armoured counterattack comes that way.

Taking the two main central compounds is very tough indeed, but you should be able to do it, eventually, with a pincer movement, and engineers blasting compound walls. Prior to that, though, you must clear the buildings and trenches to the right of the first compound. Infantry teams and snipers, with heavy vehicle support, will do that, but it takes time.

Keep plenty of inf in reserve - you have enough in the later stages - ready to rush forward where needed. And concentrate mass firepower on just one location at a time. Splitting your forces to take on more than one enemy hotspot can quickly deplete them.

Then it's all about a final push to take the crossroads area. It's well defended, so again, move up cautiously, with infantry seeking out the enemy hidden beyond it. Also, now is the time to be putting some major punishment on those occupants of the buildings on the right flank, as some of them have LOS to the crossroads area. Put some heavy artillery down on the right corner, too, as AT reinfs will have occupied that area, and also have very good LOS.

Doing it this way, you should get a surrender or a victory at timeout. You don't have to occupy the final couple of VLs.

Time is the key here. You have plenty, and plenty of arty and air support. Used wisely, they'll make a big difference to the outcome.

Having said all that, I played Pooh a number of times before I got a win. It's a monster of a battle, and immensely good fun.

Hope this helps.

Good luck, soldier!

[Thomm]

Thanks! Reading that it is indeed winnable gives me new strength!

It seems that I have to send somebody down the left flank also! I did not think it would be possible to survive cresting the hill with vehicles.

What about objective "Tigger"? Did anybody get that far? Or is it not necessary anyway? It is a hornet's nest!

Best regards,

Thomm

[handihoc]

Can't remember which one is Tigger?

Interesting that Other Means crested the left hill. I tried it once and lost two vehicles very quickly. After that I just stuck to keeping hidden snipers/spotters up there. Still, it shows there's more than one way to get to grips with Sgt Muhammed's Pooh (sorry. I just can't help it!).

[Thomm]

Tigger is in the back right corner!

Best regards,

Thomm

[handihoc]

*****SPOILERS*****

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Okay. I didn't find it necessary to advance there, but you do need to watch for the enemy reinforcements that arrive there. Their ATGMs will hunker down and give you a lot of grief later if you don't take them out.

[Other Means]

I put infantry and a spotter on the left hand hill then used my recce armour as bait to trigger the ATGMs.

Roll them over the crest then roll them right back. Look for ATGM launches. Kill the ATGMs. Do it again until you're confident you've seen them all then occupy with armour.

Against a smarter opponent I'd roll the armour up then retreat the same way.

[Lethaface]

Thomm, i've also arrived at battle Pooh (again) last week, in my restart of the marines campaign. Made some 10 saves in this mission already, reloading perhaps even more. It has got me pondering about how to play once again...

Anyways, this is my current state:

I think ive taken out almost all tanks, BMP's and bunkers, it is not visible from this screen since I just loaded it and I noticed the smoke wil re-develop after loading

I advanced the snipers on the right and and left, recon down the middle. Snipers couldn't stay on the hill due to enemy arty. I used big area targets for my cobra's constantly, they knew how to find their own targets, apart from the ones spotted by my infantry. Made some contacts at the border of the town and laid down heavy mortar fire on the trenches on both sides of the compound and the trenches at the crossroads. Took down a house which accomodated an AT-14 launching system, and some fires at suspected enemy position. I was able to take out the enemy tank reinforcements with my m1's, and an occasional cresting TOW hummer / JAV.

Now I have almost reached the town center (objective Eeyore) with half 155mm ammo left, all 81mm empty and few 61mm rounds left and the Cobra's only have some chaing gun rounds. I need smoke on the left flank to cover Fox company advance but also want to pound eeyore once more. My helos are coming in constantly and from this save i have carried out a few heavy attacks, to no avail. Ive come to the conclusion that split squads or engineer squads are not fit to take frontline position in this map, as they will be simply cowered off and shot to pieces by rifle grenades and RPG's. Since i'm playing in RT I waste some time watching the action, I try to keep my troops moving and firing constantly.

I think ill smoke the left side and go for an all out attack supported by two m1's and send out the cobras once more on the right. Perhaps I can support the right side with fox company from the left later on, which might make capturing pooh and tigger easier. Well we'll see

GL on your mission!

[handihoc]

Ive come to the conclusion that split squads or engineer squads are not fit to take frontline position in this map, as they will be simply cowered off and shot to pieces by rifle grenades and RPG's. !

I found split squads worked well provide they had good overwatch from their squadmates and, preferably, at least one other squad. Eg split a squad. Team One will advance. Have two teams overwatching from first and second floors and/or roof. If poss have another squad or heavy weapons nearby, also with los to the advancing team.

Team One advances using Hunt, so as soon as an enemy is spotted they hit the deck and return fire. Simultaneously enemy is pounded by overwatch teams.

This will suppress the enemy, if not destroy him. If he's particularly hard to knock out, bring in heavies or arty.

In general I found this to work well, with minimal casualties, though obviously there are times when other enemies will appear and all hell breaks loose at a very high cost to you.

Agree about engineers. They seem generally best used in supporting or defending roles, apart from breaching walls.

btw does anyone have a copy of this battle at setup they could send me? I accidentally deleted mine, and it's definitely one I'd like to play again sometime.

[stoex]

handihoc, I have a save from the end of 'Decisions, decisions' which accesses the 'Pooh' branch of the campaign (so your choice as to RT or WeGo). However I can only send you the file on sunday as I don't have it here, so I bet someone will probably be able to help you quicker than that. Will check in again on Sunday.

[Thomm]

If I remember correctly, these campaing files are quite large!

Otherwise I could also supply one!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Lethaface]

Those saves are 28mb min, thats too large for most mailservers. Handihoc, I send you an e-mail with a link to download a save. Its RT, deployment phase, pooh mission.

[Other Means]

IIRC Sgt Muhammed is going to release it as a standalone. It's basically what he lives for but he's a bit shy and masochistic so you need to PM and write loads of abusive mails until he gets to it.

Some people just need motivation.

[Lethaface]

Yeah, I wonder why not most campaign missions can be offered as a stand alone. Many might offer nice H2H possibilities. Give us Pooh H2H!!!!! NOW!!!!!

[handihoc]

Thanks guys.

Lethaface, I just got it and have emailed you.

Stoex, I think Lethaface has it covered now, but if there's any prob I'll get back to you.

Sgt M, if you're reading this, you've got a bunch of fans here. I've rarely seen so many discussions, in this thread and earlier ones, about a single battle. It's outstanding. Releasing it as a standalone, maybe with a few minor variations just to keep us all guessing would be a great Valentine's gift for us all!

Again, thanks everyone. This community really rocks.

[Thomm]

Don't get me wrong, guys, but I find the idea of releasing content from a commercial module for free downloading a little bit ... strange?! Guess it would not make BFC too happy.

Best regards,

Thomm

[Thomm]

WOW, the post I just made was really stupid!

Guess everybody (but me) can figure out why!

So I leave it unedited for your amusement and my humiliation!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Lethaface]

Hehe, for anyone not understanding that; you will need the marines module anyway to play the battle

EDIT: being saturday morning and stuff, your first post took me on for a couple of seconds as well; so dont feel too stupid, your not alone

[stoex]

I think Battlefront spent enough time working out how to make it so anything that people can legally produce from or for the game (mods, save games, scenarios) won't actually be of any use to anyone without the game itself.

We sometimes chastise the folks at BF because we think they are too slow in fulfilling our fantasies (even wet dreams for some guys), but they really aren't stupid .

That said, I certainly am stupid because it took me a minute or two after Thomm's second post to figure out what he was talking about . Weekends are fun

[handihoc]

It's true, when I first read your post, Thomm, I had a sudden sinking feeling that you were right and we were here promoting something Steve and co would spank us for. I only thought it through when I read your second post.

Easily done. Quite funny though. ''

[Thomm]

WOOT, I finally got my Major Victory!

Key was to concentrate on Objective Pooh and clear the left flank from there, which was easier than I thought it would be because the ATGM on that side of the map were all down by then.

Next fell the compound victory location, which is much easier to attack from the left side than through the wall, and last, but not least, the phase line and objective piglet were taken!

I steered well clear of Objective Tigger, though.

Now another two hour "monster" seems to await me, Milk Run! I remember having read that this is also not the easiest of missions. Perhaps I can dig up an old thread!

Although I do not like long missions, I have to say that "Objective Pooh" was the most impressive battle so far!

Best regards,

Thomm

[handihoc]

Congratulations. And indeed it shows there are numerous ways of winning that battle. I never took Piglette or Tigger, but got a surrender without needing to. It definitely is an impressive battle.

Milk Run is a great one, too. As I remember, it took me a few attempts to get a win there. Good luck!

[Dietrich]

*** SPOILERS! ***

Now that I have finally played "Battle for Objective Pooh" through, I can report:

I attacked up the center, between the highway and the buildings at Objective Eeyore.

Never have my forces fired so much 40mm in a single battle. I had as many as five AAVs simultaneously area-firing their AGLs at different buildings. It seemed that no amount of small-arms fire was able to defeat or even just discourage any given Syrian infantry unit. I had to pound with AGLs every building from which I had received enemy fire. I even levelled several buildings with a couple minutes of Mk 19 area fire from two or three AAVs at a time.

I lost two Abrams and most of a sniper squad to the same ATGM. A third Abrams actually got its cannon damaged -- the first time that's happened to any tank of mine in CMSF. (It seems the only way to not lose at least one Abrams to ATGMs is to decisively bombard the places where I know ATGMs are set up.) Only lost one AAV, though, somewhat surprisingly.

An F/A-18 or two to drop JDAMs on key spots (ATGM sites) would be nice. Too bad the helos usually have only enough missles for the T-62s and BMPs (though typically I see one or two T-62s lurking behind buildings when I review the map after the battle). It is nice, though, to have a unit which has full green plus-sign contact with the air assets.

Is it just me, or are Syrians' rifle grenades more deadly than the Blue 40mm? Now I cringe whenever I hear the sound of a rifle grenade exploding without the sound of such being fired from an M203 or M32.

Oh, and by the way: All (or nearly all) of the Red forces on the map are Crack. No wonder it seems like you have to blow them away where they stand. In most other battles, the enemy fires, your forces fire back, and the enemy often cowers or buggers off. In "Pooh", though, they really stand and fight.

[BlackMoria]

<snip>

I lost two Abrams and most of a sniper squad to the same ATGM. A third Abrams actually got its cannon damaged -- the first time that's happened to any tank of mine in CMSF. (It seems the only way to not lose at least one Abrams to ATGMs is to decisively bombard the places where I know ATGMs are set up.) Only lost one AAV, though, somewhat surprisingly.

I am gearing up for Pooh. I took the other path and got a fantastic Total Victory outcome so I am trying the Pooh path now. I look forward to the challenge.

In Debouch to Disaster, my lead M1 platoon was combat ineffective by the end of the scenario. They took so many hits that I had big red crosses on optics, MGs, etc....including two M1s who had main gun damage, one in which the gun was completely out of commission. First time that I have seen that amount of damage without being KOed completely.

I expect Pooh will be equally harsh to my armor.