Real Military Training any use?

[donnieitaly]

I was struck by one respondee here who said something to the effect that having loopholes in the rules (or something like that) compensated for his lack of real military training.

Now whilst now wishing them to give anything away are there any Troops out there who find their military training to be of any help in the game?

[Secondbrooks]

Hmm... Well i guess all the quide books i've read are benefiting me. But that is just hobby of mine, not training received. Those books consist range from individual soldier and weapon systems to leading batallion. ... I'd believe they benefit me not that i've much tested them against other humans... I could suck too.

Less "bonus" comes from received traning (i'm sqadleading NCO, so my knowledge of things is more in scale of shooters than wargame). Maybe even zero... Hard to say, most of things which might benefit me probably are enough simple to discover by anyone with enough experience of game and sharp mind.

If we have blokes who lead companies or batalions in reality they might offer better point of view than single pesky low-level NCO who's knowledge of things is rather theoretic when it comes to leading armored or mechaniced platoons, or all kinds of companies and such.

[Wiggum]

I think my 2 Years in the German Army (Heer, Jäger, Infantery) helps me to understand "whats going on" at the game.

But, CMSF is a game. And i a 13 year old boy can beat a general in such a game...its all about training.

[Delta228]

from what I have gathered, the study of modern military tactics does help alot. For example, someone who has never looked into modern military doctrines and tactics would have no concept of bounding overwatch or suppressing fire, both of witch are vital to achieve victory. That being said, whether or not you can make a 6 inch group at 200 yards with an M4 probably won't help you take out that pixilated T-90 thats been blasting your Bradley's in CMSF.

[cmfan]

I was an infantry man once upon a time and I think that helps me understand general U.S./threat military doctrine and squad to platoon tactics in the game fairly well. In short, I didn't have to read the manual to know not to move units without supporting overwatch or how to use terrain to mask my movements. Then again, this isn't something a savvy gamer wouldn't figure out quickly. My learning curve was just probably really short compared to someone who has never been in the military.

For example, I initially had some trouble dealing with the newer equipment modeled in the game - I was in the Army back in the early to mid 90s and things have changed a good deal since in some respects. There are also a few areas where I disagree with how the designers have modeled something, but nothing so big I couldn't adjust to. But because of my experience I got over my unfamiliarity within a game or two, though I'm still fine tuning my knowledge (see the equipment thread). I imagine a person with no military background would have to figure out each type of unit and its capabilities from a cold start (e.g. hmm, so a Bradley is not a tank like the popular press claims it is).

I think I get in trouble and frustrated when I hit the limits of the game's ability to simulate the "real world" accurately and I don't realize it. CM is pretty damn good so it actually fools me into thinking I can do some things that the game just isn't capable of simulating or representing with enough detail to make a difference. For example, subtle differences between the LOS of a vehicle's TC, its gunner and its weapon system's LOF (I wish we could draw each). That's where the gaming element of the game comes in and I have to switch mindsets to compensate for limits in fidelity.

That's why I agree with Wiggum; because of those limits a 13 year old gamer could beat a veteran combat soldier or a general. It's not necessarily a bad thing actually.

[Falconander]

While some real life training will never cross over, other things will, some practical and some not. Reading manuals and research will help non-military play and it is hard to say who has the edge.

I think military knowledge has the edge on the gamer in this game. My son and nephews can take me easily in a 'shooter' like COD: Modern Warfare. But I can school them in this game.

So many different variables to consider from weapons ,fields of fire, cover&concealment, endurance, morale, squad tactics etc.

That being said, it is a short lived advantage. Since as you play someone, you learn their tactics.

Bounding overwatch or the use of highground and fields of fire are probably the best lessons learned that I apply in this game.

[snake_eye]

The military background might help despite the new weapons being used, the military tactics is basically the same for the infantry that the one in use in the Roman Legion. You have to take new things in account and that does the trick. However the fear is not modelize. When a squad and or a platoon is pinned down, the leader might not take the right option because guys are being hit all around. In the game, you might ignore that and your move might make the difference despite the high rate of casualties. That you can't afford in real action; The game however make you approach reality and from that point of view I recon that it is as close as it could be, without the fear that is alaways present in real action. No one wants to be a casualty.

[Zipuli]

I think that military training would have most effect in CMSF if there was a co-op multiplayer mode where one would be the force commander (Bn, indep platoons etc.), other players company commanders, and they would have their own platoon leaders. And the players would have realistic fog of war, ie. company CO doesn't have a clue (other than that received via radio, if comms are working at the time) about the unit he sent 2 km south to secure his left flank if he is not there to see it for himself etc.

Currently I tend to agree with snake eye - in real combat, or even a simple two-sided exercise when you are leading say a platoon-company size force, the problem is not in the knowledge of tactics - this can be learned by simply reading a book and watching those cool arrows in the examples. The problem is always the situational awareness, and applying the correct tactics in the blurry situations. In CMSF the hardest difficulty level doesn't come even close to the real thing, as player is always sort of God, switching between units and having a good overview of the terrain. Doing it in the heavy fog, rain, hail of bullets, ducking under your APC trying to read the map, sending in messengers, moving from unit to unit to asses the situation, listening to your subordinates' reports and seeing only a fraction of your troops and the enemy at any given time, then real military training and experience will help

Zip

[Combatintman]

It helps - trust me. I'm just glad the game doesn't simulate getting beasted up and down a hill for a couple of hours.

[SgtMuhammed]

The main thing it does is reduce the learning curve because you have at least some understanding of how various systems are supposed to work together. Of course different people have different experiences and learn different things but in general it helps with the big picture.

It also gives you a wide range of curse words and phrases to use when your pixel troopen do something stupid.

[Sixxkiller]

Well I think Cmx1 and x2 both have a great value in future training exercises for our and other nations military young men and women. It gets a hell of a lot of things right and at risk of being a fan boi (which your damn right I am) some things it does a little too close to the real thing.

That being said, I think I general knowledge of military tactics is very helpful to becoming successful but I dare say, you can come in this game not knowing a RPG from a MRE and still beat the hell out of anyone, and thats where CM SHINES in my opinion. I have spent most of my life in the US Army and I still suck at this game even on lowest difficulty (oddly except AGAINST the Marines ). But that can also be true playing first person shooters which I used to be very good at but now get stomped by 13 year old's that have never or even held the weapon they are slaughtering me with.

As a training aid, CMx2 could be incredible with or without the millions they should give Battlefront to develop it. I just got back from a posting in the funzone, and a small game such as Counterstrike has been played by just about every one of my men. The discussions on who was best and why got a little heated a few times with 2 of the under 23 year old's having to be restrained a bit on one occasion.

But I think the greatest aid this game can teach is unit cohesion, learning to keep maximum potential firepower on key areas, and most of all, learning to deal with plans gone wrong, battlefield losses of key units at the exact time you need them, and dealing with the fact that we are 99/100 outnumbered by the enemy (no matter how it looks on TV).

Oh ya and also the "wow factor" I had last night has to be mentioned. I had a Jav team fry up a LAV from a roof top and my morale shot way the hell up. OMG, I think that was one of the 10 best moments in gaming ever for me. First will always be the CMBO demo first battle though.

Plus as a soldier, can you imagine your Batt commander challenging you to a training excercise on CMSF and whipping the **** out of him. You'd be a GOD in your AO.

Ok back to lurking

[Combatintman]

That being said, I think I general knowledge of military tactics is very helpful to becoming successful but I dare say, you can come in this game not knowing a RPG from a MRE and still beat the hell out of anyone, and thats where CM SHINES in my opinion.

Let's face it - they're both equally as deadly!!

[Sixxkiller]

Well I like MRE's, RPG's, I think a phrase would be succinct would be, "RPG, you can eat only one."

[Chainsaw]

Well I like MRE's, RPG's, I think a phrase would be succinct would be, "RPG, you can eat only one."

On the other hand... MRE - "meals refused by Ethopians"... ethopians dont refues RPGs... :cool:

[Sixxkiller]

If they were eating RPG's, they wouldnt be that skinny!

[Cipher]

It helps - trust me. I'm just glad the game doesn't simulate getting beasted up and down a hill for a couple of hours.

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Considering the equipment, time frame, and various other similarities, I was able to pick up on this game in short order. TO&E was much more simplified and having actually fired a javalin let me know exactly what to expect from it. Oh, by the way, while on that subject, when you fire the javalin (in game you have to wait for the hit), but then get out of there quick!

[bassplayer192837]

I dont think that anybody with any military training would be any better than the average person, although it might help. This game isnt that complicated that you need 4 weeks of boot camp to figure out. I mean reading a couple books on modern military tactics US and NCO'S would hurt.