E-license problem

[Fintilgin]

I have to admit I'm pretty put off too, by yet another strange little third party e-licensing program.

I wish you guys (and Matrix Games too, for that matter) would get on board with one of the services like Steam or Stardock's Impulse. Or, at least build your own little similar system. If I buy a game, not only should I be able to download it, but I should be able to delete and download it again any time I want, for any reason, without fuss or hassle. Hell, that's even what Amazon is doing with its Kindle e-books. THAT, in my opinion, is THE future of digital content. I shouldn't have to worry about finding a time expiring link in my e-mail to download my one and only download of my game, or unregistering my license or any such BS.

Now I'm sure you guys wouldn't make as much money per copy with something like Steam, but I think you'd make more in the end. They've got other sort of nichey strategy games on there, and moreover they've got 15,000,000 users all of whom would be able see a little banner ad on Steam for SC or CM with a link to a demo. I've gotta believe you'd pull in a ton more people who've never even HEARD of Battlefront or your games and make up for the profit it would cost to have them up on the service.

Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. I just wanted to get that off my chest. I love your games, and I'm still weighing if I want to get SC:PT, I've just gotten increasingly frustrated with strange little "Trust us it's Okay" DRM solutions. I don't have the slightest hesitation at picking up a game from someplace like Steam or Impulse, because I don't have to unregister some license for dozens of games if I want to make room on my harddrive, I can format anytime, or buy a new computer and just log on and redownload gig after gig of my games without worry. I'm a disorganized person, and if I have to hesitate or think twice about DRM or making sure I order a physical backup to make sure I can keep playing my games, I'm much less likely to make a purchase.

I want to give you my money, Battlefront! Why won't you make it easy on me?!

EDIT: Also, ugh. Sorry, no offense, but Battlefront Toolbar?! I may know you guys aren't evil, but normally if a program I'm installing tries to sneak a toolbar installation into my browser it gets instantly wiped out while I run away in the other direction screaming 'Spyware! Spyware!'. Seriously. If I'm a prospective customer who doesn't know a lot about your company, and I download a demo to see if I want to buy the full product, what the heck am I supposed to think about that? Why would I want some publisher jamming their lame toolbar in my browser, when I don't even know who they are or if I like their games yet? Is that supposed to engender confidence that you guys are legit and not scumware vendors? Even EA doesn't try that (do they?). Again, no offense, but who thought this was a good idea? I guess if you guys think you've got some amazing Battlefront Toolbar, make it a standalone download, not one of those "Hope you're reading real close, and uncheck these boxes, or we're automatically INSTALLING CRAP IN YOUR INTERNET BROWSER!"

[Kellysheroes]

if Battlefront were to ever go out of business they would simply de-activate eLicense requirement for each of their games sold... i.e. right before they clear the office and turn out the lights sort of thing.

by forcing elicenses that scenario might not be far away.

[Moon]

But I frankly don't support eLicense. It's your prerogative to prefer it, but mine to say it cost you a sale.

Yup, you got that right! Customers like you with an irrational fear against a DRM that works are probably lost. I'm not sad.

I say "irrational" because there are no arguments against eLicense that hold water. I don't care what other DRMs do or don't do, or that they're bad or not - this often gets thrown into the argument by people who don't even know how eLicense works. Of course, it's your right to choose to buy or not, for whatever reason (and for no reason, too).

All I need do for their games is insert my registered serial.

Funny you say that because that's how eLicense works, too.

because I don't have to unregister some license for dozens of games if I want to make room on my harddrive, I can format anytime, or buy a new computer and just log on and redownload gig after gig of my games without worry

In many cases you do not have to unlicense if you make changes to the PC where the game is installed on. Even reformatting only triggers the re-license window in perhaps one of two cases. eLicense "remembers" your PC even if the game was removed (but not unlicensed) in many cases. It's not 100% because of various random factors that your PC is identified by, and in those cases an email to our elicense@battlefront.com support is all that is needed for us to reset your key and help it to recognize your PC.

You can log in to our store at any time and redownload if needed. Since we're not Steam making millions of $ we need to limit your ability to re-download to 10 downloads or 365 days (counting from the day of the first download) simply because it costs too much money otherwise. Bandwidth is not free!

I'm a disorganized person[...] I want to give you my money, Battlefront! Why won't you make it easy on me?!

Because the same principles apply if you buy a download vs. buying a CD in a store. If you're disorganized and lose your CD for example, you can't go back to the store and tell them that you lost your CD and would like a new one, can you? Or if you lose your license key sticker, you can't get a new one. Being disorganized is a disadvantage when using eLicense games when you forgot to unlicense etc. but it's not an unsolvable problem either. We can always reset a key if needed, for example. But if you lose your stuff twice a week of course then you'll be doomed eventually. This is true however for anything you do in life probably

Why would I want some publisher jamming their lame toolbar in my browser, when I don't even know who they are or if I like their games yet?

The toolbar is not jammed in your browser, but it's an option during the installation, along with creating shortcuts, desktop icons etc.. Don't want it, disable it.

There is a reason for the toolbar - you get RSS feeds to news, blogfront, and the Repository. You get various multiplayer features (currently implemented are TOW and DIF), you get community weblinks (taken from our WebLinks section where other fans submit links) and there is a number of addiitional features coming in the future (PBEM helper for example).

The toolbar is a great way to stay in touch with the community (hence the name ) and again, if you don't want it, don't install it, and if you installed it by mistake, then you can uninstall it real quick with one click.

[rjh1971]

I don't really fancy the elicense system you have to be very careful not to lose the data (virus) in your pc due to formating the HD, but it seems to me it's a very effective anticopying system. As everything it has it's pro and cons.

For those reticent to buy the game because the elicense I once had a doubt and it was solve very quick, the support given was superb, so I fully trust battlefront in this aspect. I would recommned buying the game if you like it.

One of the things I'd like to see is another additional license, from two to three. Many people have the desktop at home another in their country house and probably a laptop. In my case I have a pc in my mother's in law village with no internet access. Ok I have activated the elicense there but would I need to bring back that pc to where I live to deactivate the elicense should I ever want to install it in another pc?

Can unlicensing be done without internet connection?

Anyway I will be buying the game spite of the elicense system. Nice present for Christmas.

[Moon]

Can unlicensing be done without internet connection?

No, unfortunately not. Allowing this would open a loophole for pirates. In cases such as this we can only manually reset it for you after contacting elicense@battlefront.com.

you have to be very careful not to lose the data (virus) in your pc due to formating the HD

As mentioned before, in emergencies such as these or when you have a total PC crash, we reset your license and it's as good as new As long as this doesn't happen twice a week or something like that, you will never run out of your keys. The only thing you need to do is take the trouble to send us an email with your key. In such situations that is far less work than you will likely have to do to revive your PC. And contrast this to other systems, DRM or copy protection, where if you have a catastrophic failure of your CD, the game is irrecoverable, or where unlicensing isn't possible in the first place...!

Martin

[Timskorn]

I understand people's disdain with the word 'DRM', as some have caused some customers an insane level of headaches. However, elicense is pretty easy and hassle-free compared to many others.

I'm hearing a lot of "if this happens", "I should be able to"...really, do people format harddrives and get viruses every month? Downloading again is extremely easy, and if you have problems finding the e-mail, save it. And I don't know about anyone else, but an SC game takes up so little HD space I never consider uninstalling them to make room, especially compared to other programs and games I have that I could uninstall.

So it seems mostly a principle thing, which is fine, everyone has to have principles to stick to…but in return you're missing out on a fantastic game because of theoretical situations you may never find yourself in. We're not talking about a car purchase here people, holy cow. Crack a cold one, relax and just get the game and start sinking some flattops!!

[Scrogdog]

I agree Timskorn. I think a lot of the problem revolves around consumer education.

There are many stories out there like Starforce ruining drives and other DRMs depositing rootkits upon the user's PC.

Worse, the companies who used these types of things tried to hide them. No one was going to tell you about a root kit. No one was going to acknowledge that thier software broke things.

This has certainly led to a mistrust of ALL DRMs within the PC gaming community, and really, can you blame folks? The way some companies treat thier customers should not reflect upon the good companies, but unfortunately it does.

That said, I have DLd the game a few days ago. Looking forward to kicking the tires this weekend!

[Kellysheroes]

Silent Kipper,

Not that it will necessarily change your mind at this point but I thought I would clarify one important point of apparent contention.

The easiest way to de-activate the elicense requirements, i.e. should the very unlikely situation ever be required, is to simply provide a non protected executable of the game.

Even, and we are talking a very worst case scenario here, if all entities related to the development and publication of this game go out of business, there are many ways to make this file readily and easily available considering the multitude of download sites on the web.

FYI, one of the reasons I mentioned that I can provide assurances of this is that since I am the Developer, this is quite easy to do since I am the one that actually makes the game executable.

Hope this helps,

Hubert

That's all fine and well, but, what if you just happen to have a massive heart attack and die? I know that's morbid and all, but, we're talking about consumers vs business practices that you are now saying you are the soul person who can do something about the elicense. Plus, I didn't see 3DO or the others making no-cd ability of their products when they went out of business or stopped making products. It's all fine and well to give us your well being thoughts of "this moment", but, things change, people change and attitudes and personalities change in given situations so what GUARANTEE do we have that you'll live up to your WORD? I'm just trying to understand why software developers and publishers think they are better than every other industry out there that doesn't live by these practices, offer refunds and the whole 9 yards of "consumer satisfaction". I get more customer satisfaction buying books and music cd's than I do out of software purchases. I just can't fathom how the software industry treats EVERYONE like they are pirates first and foremost and treat those that DO PAY just like they would a pirate.

On that note, the demo is great and I'd really like to have a copy of it, pay full price, but, I will NOT cower and be victumized by intrusive DRM's or copyprotection or any other means that is intrusive or forces me to do a certain thing or be online to play a silly game. No game is worth that. No gamer should have to do that or be treated like a pirate. I will also push for boycotts towards any publishers or developers who do so. We boycotted StarForce and got that off of several publishers games I guess we'll just have to do it at other places as well. Back to Matrixgames where trust comes before greed.

[jon_j_rambo]

Good points KellysHereos. Here's your answers:

"If he dies, he dies" --- Rocky III --- Dude, if Hubert kicks the bucket, he's either in Heaven or Hell......and so is your dough for the license crap.

Pirates --- For every honest 1000 Joes dishing out a 50-spot, there's one Indian or Chinese prick trying to hack the game. If his game gets hacked, it's free online for everybody. For myself, I'm no software thief, but the world is Satan's, for now, so deal with it.

Far as "getting screwed over" by a bad product. Good grief, I was spending $110 for a tank of gas, I'm not going to worry about $50 for a game or $10 for UPS shipping. I spend $100 for television....one trip to a ballgame is $100.....one trip to the movie theater is $20........a case of diapers for the kid is $20......one trip to Walmart for food is $300. One bad day of sport's gambling is $500

Get in the game.

[Timskorn]

C'mon now Kellysheroes, you know there are only 3 guarantees in this world.

Actually, there is a 4th one...I can guarantee you'll get your $45 worth with SC2 Pacific. And I'll make sure you cower and are victimized when we get a MP game going.

[Kellysheroes]

"If he dies, he dies" --- Rocky III --- Dude,

Yes and as I recall that Russian got his butt kicked at the end of that movie. So, all the consumers watching that movie got what they wanted at the end of it. To mean if you wait and hold out long enough you'll get what you want.

[Dartwatch@att.net]

Just would like to add my 2 cents. I don't like the E license but chosen to purchase all versions of SC so I had to do it. Recenlty I had a power supply go up in the middle of the night and before I could save it the HD etc went up.

I contacted Battlefront by email and explained my problem, within 12 hours I had a reset email and was up and running. Wish I could say that for a certain sporting game company......So actually this is both sides of the coin...I guess you have to hope the company is responsive.

As someone who wrote some sports games for a company under Commedore 64 (Yes I am that old) I know the agnst over the issue of piracy. However I still am not happy with E Lic. but then I didn't like windows when it came out .