Multiplayer: Real-time or WeGo?

[TempV]

That is the question. I played single-player only and tried WeGo for the first games. I found them a little boring so I started over with the real-time mode and could complete a mission in 30-50 min of gaming time. I could instantly change unit orders according combat situation. In contrast, WeGo requires careful planning each turn with lot of waypoints placed, so it takes much more time, imho.

But how about multiplayer modes? I've seen on this forum that players prefer PBEM only. What is the reason for that? I think because real-time mode requires a good ping to play and there are so few wargamers comparing to common players , it's not an easy task to find an opponent near your place. But may be I am wrong. Please, explain your opinion on this subject. And I'd like to ask BFC, what is your experience with real-time MP games of CMSF? Did you find them as funny as PBEM? What is the difference between both of these styles of MP gaming? (Personally, I think RT requires a lot of micromanagement and maybe that is the cause this mode is not very suitable for wargame such as CMSF)

Thanks

[theFightingSeabee]

I've heard several people saying they miss all the action in rt. They like the cinematic quality. Sometimes it's nice to sit back and see how your plan worked.

[JSB]

Sometimes it's nice to sit back and see how your plan worked.

You can do it in real time: select some units, give them a pause order and then you can elaborate complex plans as in WEGO. Unpause everyone at the same time, and you can sit back and see how your plan didn't work (and then you are happy to play in RT!!!)

[Sivodsi]

You should also consider that many of us started WeGo with the CMX1 series, and have become set in our ways.

WeGo rulz!

[Mike Churchmoor]

1. WeGo because I'm used to it.

2. WeGo because winning the game is not related to my reflexes in any way.

3. WeGo because of replay possibility.

4. WeGo because my multiplaying sessions are pbem only (lack of free time :mad:).

[c3k]

Wego because of what Mike Churchmoor just wrote. He hit each of the reasons quite well. If I want an RTS, there are a lot out there. If I want a carefully researched, high fidelity combat simulation game, there's CM.

Regards,

Ken

[TempV]

But this combat simulation game features real-time mode in its 2'nd generation series for some reasons. Maybe game designers would clear that .

And one of the best wargames ever made was Close Combat series. Pure RT, it was both fun and simple to play and required some serious tactical skills, not APM drilling. I just liked to know if CMSF in RT mode would have such fun and smart gameplay or it would resemble "more clicks win the game" style RTS. I mean human-vs-human games, because for single-player I'm definitly for RT. But you can push "pause" key playing against AI that is not an option against human.

[Roter Stern]

If I want an RTS, there are a lot out there. If I want a carefully researched, high fidelity combat simulation game, there's CM.

So what you're saying is that Combat Mission is a simulation that attempts to replicate real life combat as accurately as possible - which I completely agree with.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know real life combat does not feature a infinite length pause every 60 seconds allowing commanders to get their thoughts together and orders sent out. What real life combat does feature is chaos and an unforgiving pace - requiring quick thinking, yet accurate planning from the commanders.

So in other words, CMx2 RT multiplayer make a much more authentic combat simulation than CMx1 ever did.

[c3k]

The Louch,

Hmm, very true that infinite pauses every 60 seconds do not occur in real life. Well, in MOST people's lives. However, in real life, I do NOT need to order every single level of action.

For example, if I were a platoon commander in real life, would I tell one of my M240 teams HOW to get to the firing position I want? Would I tell them WHEN and HOW to deploy their weapon? Would I tell the driver of a Stryker which speed to drive? Would I tell that to every driver in the platoon?

Do you see where I'm going?

In CM, I am EVERY leader; from the team leader up to the Battalion Commander. I must order everything; synchronize everything; prioritize all objectives at every level. I must do all the jobs.

Now, if you want to play one squad in RT, then CM with no pauses would be the way to go. IMHO.

So, CMx2 RT multiplayer is a hack. It has no more to do with real life than checkers...or CMx2 Wego. Neither system (RT or WeGo) is perfect. I do not think that RT is closer to true simulation than WeGo. Nor vice-versa.

Since I must command every unit, I need time to do so. Wego gives me that time, yet keeps me from pausing at any moment if I so desire (which RT lets you do).

I think CMx2 RT is too chaotic, too frenzied. It is a click-fest. In that vein, Company of Heroes is very similar, however, CoH is more fun (to me) for that style of play.

Your opinion obviously is different.

Isn't it great that CMx2 supports BOTH our preferences?

Regards,

Ken

[Roter Stern]

Very good point about multiple levels of command, however also consider that it takes a lot longer than a few seconds worth of mouse clicks for a battlefield commander to order a company level assault on an enemy position. Granted it would not make for an entertaining game if the players had to write battle orders and conduct platoon briefings for every single battle … that's where the line between a realistic simulation and a fun wargame is being drawn, but as a matter of compensating for that challenge the player is instead tasked with commanding several levels of leadership in the battle.

The only major thing that spoils RT for me is the inability of keeping track of your unit's status without having to actively check up on them every so often. I'd like to see something introduced to be notified that "something has gone wrong" with either your units' status or order execution - at least then you can concentrate on giving orders to one of the units and still have the safety of knowing that you're not missing important action on the other side of the map. That in my mind, is without a doubt the area where WeGo is superior to RT, as far as the simulation goes.

[panzermartin]

I have played a few multiplayer RT CMSF battles. Not really fun. Sync/Lag problems, the known gameplay weaknesses, and the lack of a pause feature mean you never actually get in the game. In contrast with CMx1, where you actually had even detailed dreams about the map and that crack stug behind the hill, after an intense TCP/IP session

I dont say that WEGO is the way to go in TCP/IP though. I would strongly prefer a Time out/Pause option with a preset limit agreed between the players, that would allow some deeper tactical thinking between the frenzy mouse clicking, while retaining the flexibility to order your troops in Real time.

[Lethaface]

I play both RT & WeGo, with a favour for RT when i do SP. In MP I play RT sometimes but its bugged out quite hard. Strange though because these bugs didn't appear when I played most RT MP; with version 1.01.

PBEM is a beautiful gem because you can play whenever you feel like and it doesnt matter if you suddenly have to do something, like go to the toilet

I also became to like it quite a lot. Before CMx2 i never really played turned base games except Total War and CIV. (I never played CMx1).

In CMSF I think that RT MP plays out better with lets say, a few tanks and 1 or 2 platoons.

[Derfel]

As for the question of We-Go vs RT it is (to me anyway) a question of how much info you the player need to make a good job of running your pixeltruppen (your digital soldiers that is). CMSF is a very detailed and complex game that gives the player bucket loads of info, and you need it. In larger scenarios RT there is no way to absorb this and act on it unless you pause frequently, and then you're half way to We-Go anyway. Smaller scenarios (like Bytebattles,,, ahem... www.kretsen.nu/bytebattler) can usually be played without too much pausing, but even then I often find vehicles and troops suddenly bursting into flames for no apparent reason and fervently wish I could "rewind" to see what the hell just happened.

Multi-player TCP is at the moment sadly unplayable (as Ali-baba notes) due to some severe bugs. I really, really hope something is done with this in the upcoming patch. A line or two from Matt over at the Tech forum seemed to indicate that BF is at least aware of the issue(s).