Christmas present from Bob Woodward to John Kettler

[Stalins Organ]

Pak_43,

I was trying to show you that what was being played with as pretty much a lab curiosity in the early 1960s was, by the late 1960s, apparently already in use in black project circles for real world military operations, as seen in the two Project Camelot accounts of the shattering battlefield use of a dozen linked child warriors wielding their carefully honed psychic talents to annihilate some 2000 VC and NVA as part of a rescue of trapped Green Berets in Cambodia.

Wow - shame they couldn't kill the rest and win the war then.

Who screwed up that one?

[John Kettler]

Stalin's Organist,

I suspect that denied ops in Cambodia offered the perfect combat test venue, seeing as how the Green Berets weren't supposed to be there to begin with and doubtless were OPCON to the CIA. That, I bet, is the real reason the rescue was organized. Did you watch the vids or the the transcripts regarding this event?

Affentitten,

Thanks! Hadn't seen that.

In other news, some typos in the earlier post escaped my exhausted gaze.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Affentitten]

Affentitten,

Thanks! Hadn't seen that.

I'm an equal opportunity troller.

[Pak_43]

Alrighty then, well I can tell you that "The Men Who Stare at Goats" has zero evidence that the US military actually use such psychic powers for military operations (as opposed to psychologicaland that it is all about the amount of resources they have wasted researching these powers to zero effect (and the whacko's he encounters along the way)

Thus as a link to prove your point it's completely invalid, and this is the reason why I simply don't read the vast majority of your links John, they are completely unrelated to the point your trying to make and thus wasting my time, please be more selective in future...

I've read a lot of other books too, although how that's pertinent to my point I'm not sure...

[John Kettler]

Pak_43,

I could argue the reverse just as easily, in that I showed you a logical connection between early government alarm over the then Soviet/Warsaw Pact psi threat, classified docs written in response, various other experiments mounted, together with evidence, which you can't be bothered to look at, that in the black project world, at least, it WAS weaponized and WAS used. Further, evidence exists indicating that Saddam Hussein's bolt hole was RVed and very accurately characterized a priori. If that's not a military use, I don't know what is.

http://www.paranormalreview.co.uk/News/tabid/59/newsid368/59/mid/368/Default.aspx

http://www.stephanaschwartz.com/PDF/Saddam%20RV%20in%20VI.pdf

As for the books I mentioned, I was specifically referring to my psi books, of which I have a pretty good collection. As such, they were relevant to the discussion, but I didn't feel like typing out the list.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Pak_43]

No, your not arguing the reverse of my position because my position is not that the military have never used Psi powers. My position is that your method of presenting evidence (as I've shown above) is not a credible methodology for persuading people of your case.

Please note I took the time to establish you had not read the book and also that I was not misrepresenting your position...

Linking a review of a book which you have never read and does not in fact contribute to your case in any way shape or form just persuades me that there is no point in following up any of your links since your just wasting our time.

Your presenting yourself as the SME on military use of Psi on this message board and yet your evidence is (on at least one occasion) flawed, shoddily researched and full of assumptions about it's content.

Your research approach seems to be that if you spray enough bullets about some are bound to hit their mark... as a research methodology I can tell you this is not one that is bound to convince others of either your veracity or the rigour with which you conduct your research. If it truly is your aim to educate us at to what's going on out there beyond our blinkered view then I suggest you start by presenting your evidence better and with more thought, if this isn't your aim in doing that then what the hell are you posting it here for? Find a different audience...

[Stalins Organ]

Stalin's Organist,

I suspect that denied ops in Cambodia offered the perfect combat test venue, seeing as how the Green Berets weren't supposed to be there to begin with and doubtless were OPCON to the CIA. That, I bet, is the real reason the rescue was organized.

And then they never bothered to sue this fantastic weapon again.

After such a successful test you'd think there was no real need for deniability......

Did you watch the vids or the the transcripts regarding this event?

Yes I waded my way through the transcript at great personal cost.

the military experiment was partly aimed at inducing psychosis IIRC - I'd say if this guy was part of it then it worked!! :cool:

Pak_43 wrote:

Your research approach seems to be that if you spray enough bullets about some are bound to hit their mark

And if they miss first time round he's happy to recycle them a bit later and try again too.....

[John Kettler]

Pak_43 and Stalin's Organist,

I'll see what I can do. What I can't do much about, though, is the tendency (British grade understatement) of some here to adversely react to that which doesn't happen to fit their reality model. It's hard to communicate effectively when one's interlocutor generally not only hasn't been exposed to the same body of evidence but refuses to even look at it when given the chance, let alone indulges in personal aspersions, as has happened repeatedly. That's the general case.

In this specific case, I was trying to show, without your having to read, say, a dozen books, that the military and intelligence have both had a longstanding interest in psi spanning decades, that extensive experimentation had been done, and that certain aspects of psi had, in fact, been weaponized and used. I provided numerous citations in support of this, one of which happened to be the "goat" book review of a book which one of you had read and I had not. Once again, the larger point was missed, which was the fact that the military was seriously working on these capabilities. Whether you're comfortable with it or not, psi is real.

RV has seen the inside of a Chinese nuclear device, peered inside a submarine manufacturing building, and has correctly read the file titles inside a classified safe, inside an area so secret it couldn't even be named. What can be said, though, is that it triggered a major security flap. As of 2007, per this, it seems to still be in use operationally.

http://www.globalpolitician.com/23596-military

Suggest you also compare the RV drawing in Figure 4 here with Figure 5, which was, back then, a classified rendering.

http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/CIA-InitiatedRV.html

Some good examples of RV drawings and ground truth here, to include a close up of the Semipalatinsk crane.

http://www.espresearch.com/examples.shtml

This is what happened when retired military RVer Joe MacMoneagle did a series of double blind RV sessions for Nippon TV.

http://www.mceagle.com/remote-viewing/Japan6.shtml

Psychotronic weapons are real, as seen in a whole series of legislative measures in response to awareness of their existence and capabilities.

http://www.subversiveelement.com/MK_Psychotronic_weapons.html

If that didn't curl your hair, this should. The two ladies are the authors of the seminal book PSYCHIC DISCOVERIES BEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN. Naumov is one of the giants of psi research, and you'll recognize several other important people in the two segments. Also, you'll get to see some of the devices and learn what they can do.

KGB Psychic Weapons Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GcRFirBr_o&NR=1

KGB Psychic Weapons Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUO5p6dCtDg&NR=1

Psychic assassins

http://www.whale.to/b/theta8.html

The first part of THE MARS RECORDS (free download) deals with the direct use of military RV as a prelude to psychic assassination. If you compare the man's recovered memories with what's said in the Theta link immediately above, you'll find them remarkably congruent.

http://themarsrecords.com/

Soviet Psychic Assassinations Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE9ybBR90lg

Soviet Psychic Assassinations Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIYo4ib4lg&NR=1

Save for reading through THE MARS RECORDS, most of what I've listed will take less than an hour all told to watch and read. It'll richly reward that time, too, by providing you with information utterly unknown to most people on the planet.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Pak_43]

I'll see what I can do. What I can't do much about, though, is the tendency (British grade understatement) of some here to adversely react to that which doesn't happen to fit their reality model. It's hard to communicate effectively when one's interlocutor generally not only hasn't been exposed to the same body of evidence but refuses to even look at it when given the chance, let alone indulges in personal aspersions, as has happened repeatedly. That's the general case.

Come on John, stop playing the martyr, I haven't attacked you personally, I've attacked your methodology and pointed out it harms your credibility.

And I'll say it again, my point is not about the fact or otherwise of military use of Psi, it's about your method of presenting your evidence. If you want to set yourself up as the SME on a subject (as you seem to on this board) then don't do a slapdash job of research it's not helping your point, otherise somewhere along the line you'll pop up a link that someone knows more about than you and they will call you on it. Posting another load of links attempting to counter a point I'm not even making just smacks of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "La, la, la"

[John Kettler]

Pak_43,

I made no such accusation regarding you, thus can't be "playing the martyr," as you assert. To the contrary, I not only acknowledged the criticism, but consciously set about finding some good examples of several types of military and intelligence use of psi, for a variety of purposes. I showed you just how good results from RV could be at times, focusing particularly on the Semipalatinsk crane and on RV's uses in locating people completely unknown to the RVer and clear on the other side of the planet. Earlier, I showed how accurate the info was that a team of RVers came up with regarding Saddam Hussein's bolt hole.

If you watched the vids, I presented interviews with some of the movers and shakers in psi research, you saw Nina Kulagina (she's the one with her hands over the strapped down frog) and other great Russian psychics at work, you saw Top Secret Soviet film shot inside classified labs, run by people so sensitive no photos exist of them. You saw interviews with former senior KGB officers (generals) about what was being done, its use and some of the devices themselves, ranging from tactical to strategic applications.

These hardly qualify as sticking my fingers in my ears! I'm curious, though. Did you actually go through the material I so carefully gathered in order to make my case, or are you simply reacting to the fact I posted links--without having bothered to actually see what they were about? I even provided brief overviews to assist you. If you wish to dispute certain matters, fine, but if you expect me to "listen" to you, it would be nice if the street ran both ways.

If SME = Subject Matter Expert, I'd say that relative to many here, I am, but not in an absolute sense overall. Rather, I've spent years reading and researching the topic. You might be interested to know that one of my contacts (retired military and alphabet soup agency spook) informed me that U.S. military and intel use of psi predates the whole RV program. That was volunteered to me, but I've long known it, as obscure as that info is to most. The contact said that the Navy was using psychics to hunt Russian subs. This is mentioned obliquely here ("tracking fleets"), as part of a long treatment of military use of psi going clear back to the Bible, in a well done overview of the psi field, to include extensive coverage of Eastern European and Russian work dating back to WW I and used in action!

http://www.williamjames.com/Folklore/PSIONICS.htm

For greater depth, here's a Ph.D. scientist turned maverick researcher's massively documented investigation into the real capabilities. Please note this article is over a decade old. I can show you interviews, vids, drawings of the equipment and more attesting to the reality of the technology described.

http://www.dark-truth.org/nov162006-7-scientific-remote-viewing.html

Further, I suggest you carefully consider what the Ph.D. above has to say about Russian psi research in light of the evidence presented here on early Russian research.

Cold War Psychic Operatives, by T. Stokes

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=100121

I'll close this portion with an explanation of how radionics works. This, you see, is how the Navy was apparently having some success tracking Russian subs, using a photograph of the desired target as the connection allowing the psychic to zero in on the real submarine and its activities.

http://www.mysticalwonders.org/group/about4711.html

That psi exists has long been proven. A great deal of research established the means and methods to such effect that the then Soviets deployed countermeasures to RV surveillance of some of their most sensitive installations. They, too, had a firsthand experience in which one of their own, through RV, penetrated a secret center and described its contents in frightening detail. If you read some of the U.S. RV accounts, the RVers talk specifically about being detected and having to leave.

All of this is directly pertinent to my argument, and I invite you to read it carefully and grok it in fullness.

Regards,

John Kettler

P.S.

Here's quite write up by the remarkable (see details on his bio in the piece) Martin Ebon, who wrote an entire book called PSYCHIC WARFARE, and provides an invaluable retrospective on Soviet Cold War psi research and parts of the American response thereto.

http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/Ebon1.html

[JonS]

*whooosh*

lalalalalalalala

[Wicky]

Cold War Psychic Operatives, by T. Stokes

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=100121

Taking one of your blithering shot gun links and looking more closely at supposed psychic wartime warrior Alexander Cannon...

"in Britain in W.W.II Alexander Cannon as part of Churchill’s occult“Black team” showed similar in his lecture called; “Proving the impossible – Possible.” This news held the British war dept in a state of shock"

"Winston Churchill’s wartime Black team magical experiments,"

However a quick search shows an entirely different story about him and his abilities -

Showmen or Charlatans? - The Stories of ‘Dr’ Walford Bodie and ‘Sir’ Alexander Cannon

"investigated by MI5 whose recently disclosed conclusion that he was only “a quack and compulsive liar” "

"“Do you think he really was a bit psychotic or just having a wonderful time lying?” You can reach your own conclusion after reading this admirable treatment of one of British magic’s amazing characters!"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/yorkslincs/series5/iom_spy.shtml

"Despite the façade of his rather unusual public repertoire - coffin tricks and the hypnosis of chickens, Dr Cannon faced allegations of being a Nazi sympathiser."

As usual why am I not surprised that scratching the veneer of your 'research' demonstrates shoddy and dubious sources for your claims.

[Pak_43]

http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/Ebon1.html

John, this link contains no evidence whatsoever, and is just merely a long list of assertions...see what I mean?

[Wilhammer]

I support John on this;

"That psi exists has long been proven."

Each of my car tires takes 35 psi.

[John Kettler]

Pak_43,

Did we read the same article?! Mine had sourced quotes, reports of experiments, naming all the principal investigators, the institute where the work was done, the scientific journal it which it was published. Mine had statements from Dr. August Stern, an emigre who at one time worked inside one of the closed institutes, statements published in the NEW YORK TIMES. Mine had quotes from a study done by AiResearch Manufacturing Co. for the CIA. Mine had a list of relevant research institutes painstakingly assembled by Mr. Ebon himself, arguably an expert in this field. Mine reports animal telepathy so strong among starving mice that the well-fed ones began to act as though they're starving! Mine presents evidence that disease and death are transmissible via EM means. That work, BTW, has been replicated. That discovery alone justified all the expenses of the entire psi program, for it provided an entirely new means of waging both warfare and health, once the specifics of that signal sent from the dying cell culture to the other could be decoded, and it was. You see, if it was transmissible by light, then it was also transmissible by radio frequency. In turn, that meant it could be superimposed on a carrier signal and broadcast! Multiple dead ambassadors, one gravely ill one and a slew of sick Moscow embassy personnel later, we finally figured out what they were doing to us. A declassified Top Secret, Limited Distribution document available at the CIA's FOIA Electronic Reading Room (www.foia.cia.gov) via the search phrase "microwave irradiation," Implications for U.S.-Soviet Relations of Certain Soviet Activities, dated 25 June 1976, clearly indicates we thought it was an antilistening measure. Nyet! Here's the reality.

http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/021401.htm

Kaznacheyev is the guy with the EM transmission of death and disease experiment Martin Ebon reports on. Footnote 50 here lists a slew of open sources you can consult to confirm U.S. cluelessness regarding this irradiation.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bearden/ferdelance/additionalnotes.htm

Is the report unconventional in its layout. You bet! Is it merely a tissue of supposition? Hardly. And I suggest you take a close look at what Robert Toth was charged with receiving and the sensitivity the Soviet authorities themselves attached to it. You might also ask why, if there was nothing to it, did the Soviet authorities initiate a crackdown after PSYCHIC DISCOVERIES BEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN came out and why, unless on a secured line, CIA personnel were forbidden to so much as speak the word "parapsychology" over the phone?

Wilhammer,

Cute!

Regards,

John Kettler

There are many aspects of this we can get into, but I get the distinct impression you personally would be a lot happier pretending it's "...all sound and fury, signifying nothing." With the information contained in that report alone, I could keep an entire team of intelligence analysts busy for months, meanwhile generating stacks of new intelligence collection requirements.

[John Kettler]

Wicky,

While I hadn't heard of the gentlemen you cite or the Black-Team prior to finding that article, I can tell you that that there WAS an occult war waged against Hitler. It's detailed in Dion Fortune's THE MAGICAL BATTLE OF BRITAIN. Churchill was himself quite an occultist by virtue of being a high level Freemason and, apparently, a Druid.

This turned up, written by the same T. Stokes, and addresses both Churchill's occultic nature and the Black-Team. Mr. Stokes and I disagree on the evidence for an occultic war against Hitler, in that he seems unaware of the material closely held for 50 years by Dion Fortune's occult lodge.

http://www.illuminati-news.com/081006c.htm

Churchill's earlier Masonic skulduggery to bring the U.S. into WW I via literal human sacrifice and on a grand scale--the Lusitania's being "fed" to a U-Boat after being slowed to a crawl and stripped of her escort. If you think that's made up, please see Griffin's THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND, also Simpson's THE LUSITANIA.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=77847

The best and most complete explanation I've seen to date regarding occultism and the Hess flight.

http://newdawnmagazine.com.au/Article/The_British_Occult_Secret_Service.html

I read your material with interest, having zero prior background on the two named.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wilhammer]

"pretending it's "...all sound and fury, signifying nothing."

No need to pretend, it is all hooey - do you watch Fringe, the new Fox X-files gone mainstream show?

[Affentitten]

Wicky,

Churchill was himself quite an occultist by virtue of being a high level Freemason and, apparently, a Druid.

I'm going to get that put on a t-shirt! Straight from the K-Files.

[John Kettler]

Affentitten,

You tell me.

Article and picture about his Druid side

http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2005/09sep/winstondruid.html

As for Churchill's Freemasonry, the Masonic accounts are at pains to show he was a good member but never rose very high. Hmm.

By contrast, he is quite clearly known in other circles as a 33rd Degree Mason.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/33rd.htm

If he wasn't, why was he using a known 33rd Degree Masonic sign, explained here?

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2008/07/numerology-33.html

Churchill quoted from here

http://www.fdrs.org/freemason_quotes.htm

"The one who cannot see that on Earth a big endeavor is taking place, an important plan, on which realization we are allowed to collaborate as faithful servants, certainly has to be blind."

- Winston Churchill, 33rd Degree Freemason

Nor does this perception seem limited to the States. Mr. Charles Crosby's take

in the TELEGRAPH.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/03/10/do1003.xml

"Whether Churchill was anti-Jewish or not I have no idea, but he was a 33rd Degree Mason, which means he was part of the Jesuit-Illuminati and International Banking Conspiracy, as was Roosevelt and Eisenhower."

An Islamist site quotes Churchill bluntly and agrees with his identification as 33rd Degree

http://www.missionislam.com/nwo/illuminati.htm

Winston Churchill, 33 Degree Freemason

"What we say, goes"

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wicky]

According to my immpecable internet sources Winston Churchill in addition to being an Occultist uber warrior also found the time to be the first man to walk on the moon.

www.timesonline.co.uk - Winston Churchill was first to walk on the Moon

I'm going to get that put on a t-shirt! Straight from the K-Files.

Pak_43,

Further, evidence exists indicating that Saddam Hussein's bolt hole was RVed and very accurately characterized a priori. If that's not a military use, I don't know what is.

http://www.paranormalreview.co.uk/News/tabid/59/newsid368/59/mid/368/Default.aspx

http://www.stephanaschwartz.com/PDF/Saddam%20RV%20in%20VI.pdf

Re. The RV experiment that supposedly located Saddam was done at the eminent Atlantic University - what the article forgets to tell you is the 'Atlantic University' is not the reputable Florida Atlantic Uni as implied but the dubious online 'Edgar Cayce Atlantic University'

· Affordable tuition

· Open enrollment - start anytime

· No residency requirements

i.e send us the cash and what qualification do you want?...

Still you search for anything to with Stephan Schwartz on their site and nothing turns up - so I doubt the experiment even happened at the PO Box Uni campus. Same also for "Atlantic University Administrator Herk Stokely," who is absent on the Uni site and is more into model airplanes and I ching.

As for claims that Stephan Schwartz RV / 'pararcheology' skills in location unknown historical sites i.e Lighthouse of Pharos etc:

www.illuminatiarchives.org!!

"Schwartz also claims he was involved in the discovery and the first modern mapping of the Eastern Harbor of Alexandria and the discovery of numerous shipwrecks as well as Mark Anthony's palace in Alexandria, the Ptolemaic Palace Complex of Cleopatra, and the remains of the Lighthouse of Pharos, one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Much of this was discounted by two on-site Egyptian scholars whom Schwartz had listed as research associates, Dr. Shehetta Adam, head of Egypt's Department of Antiquities and Dr. Mostafa El Abbadi"

http://www.coscienza.org/English/BrandoCrespi01.htm

Brando Crespi (mobius group founded by S Schwartz) "We did some land work which we haven't yet talked about because It will be the subject of various papers and will be presented in the future. But in terms of the water, of underwater archeology, there was only one dive in the lighthouse area in 1962 by a UNESCO team. They made six dives and found the Lighthouse of Pharos, as we know it. So we can't claim that we found the lighthouse. What we have done is filmed a lot of additional material"

As usual fool's gold.

http://www.edgarcayce.org/donate/

Gift Recognition Levels

Good Karma Club

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A field trip to Edgar Cayce’s Association for Research and Enlightenment

Atlantic University: A degree of nonsense

[Wilhammer]

I've been a mason. Hard work.

One needs to understand the relationships of Portland Cement, Sand, water, and temperature.

It is a finely balanced conspiracy to hold walls up or have a nice brick veneer that will last for a long time and not be subject to calcium stains and deterioration.

My latest home Masonry project was to lay some bricks for a short garden wall, and I have some failed Mason Joints that need patching on a retaining wall that is about 50 years old.

[Pak_43]

Well here's the extract from the 1st 2 para's of the first abstract..

In Moscow on June 11, 1977, Los Angels Times correspondent Robert C. Toth was arrested and detained on a charge of illegally obtaining papers that disclosed "state secrets". The papers had been given to Toth by a Soviet scientist, Valery G. Petukhov.

Toth had first met the Russian biophysicist earlier in the year. While Petukhov seemed eager to show his scientific findings to Toth, the correspondent felt that his work was "only theory and far too complicated" for a newspaper story.

Toth reported that, as best as he could recall, Petukhov asserted that certain particles of living cells "are emitted" when such cells divide, that they can be "detected and measured and that these radiating particles can carry information." Their function could "explain the basis for telepathy" and related phenomena.

To Toth, Valery Petukhov seemed "like a serious scientist." According to a card he handed the reporter, he was Chief of the Laboratory of Bio-Physics at the State Control Institute of Medical and Biological Research.

He had been recommended to Toth by a dissent Soviet scientist who later emigrated. At their first meeting, the Los Angeles Times man told Petukhov that, once the scientists had proved this theory, he would be interested in writing about it.

Where's the validation? Where's the arrest warrant records? Which scientist recommended him? has anybody checked the archives to see if he actually worked where he did?

Numerous other statements completely unvalidated? For example...

Western analyst have concluded that the KGB took control of Soviet studies in parapsychology no later than 1970.

More precisely, the agency appears to have taken a serious interest in the field during this period, and its involvement after that became more active and consistent.

Which Western analysts? And when was it concluded?

The whole of the "Code of Telepathy" is simply a series of assertions with no supporting material whatsoever...

The most spectacular experiments undertaken by the Moscow Laboratory of Bio-Information used the Soviet Union's star telepathists -Yuri Kamensky, a biophysicist, and Karl Nikolayev, an actor.

The two men first discovered each other's capabilities in thought transference when they met socially. Even before the Popov research group arranged formal tests, their skills attracted a mixture of curiosity, awe, and doubt in Moscow society

Source? Evidence?

And finally, just like "The Men Who Stare At Goats" all this shows is that the Russians researched Psi powers it says nothing about their application for military use, as evidence to support your point it's once again poorly sourced and poorly targeted...

All your doing is reinforcing my point, your point is the military uses Psi powers in military operations, my point is that your evidence to support this is usually put together in a slapdash manner...

but I get the distinct impression you personally would be a lot happier pretending it's "...all sound and fury, signifying nothing."

I'm not attempting to prove the Military never used Psi in military operations, I'm attempting to prove your research methods are slapdash and poorly thought through. Your quote above just shows you've missed my point...

If you presented carefully targeted evidence that supports the case your making I'd make more time to go through it, but while you expect me to spend time and effort wading through articles that bear almost no relation to the point your trying to make, I'm not going to spend my time sorting through the wheat from the chaff? Why should I? Your the SME on the subject, if you want to introduce it to a wider audience then it behooves you to make it streamlined and accessible...

That's fair enough isn't it?

[John Kettler]

Pak_43,

It's by no means as easy as you might think, seeing as how I first have to overcome lots of programming people have been given on what is and isn't possible. Then, I have to somehow boil down whole shelves of material (my psi library runs several linear feet) and put it into a context understandable not only by people who probably have no real familiarity with the subject but who may be strongly opposed to it for any number of reasons.

Did you watch the four vids I posted on actual Soviet psi research? If not, I highly recommend you do that before we resume this discussion in detail. It's quick, and the information transfer rate per unit time is very high compared to wading through long complicated articles online.

Some of your questions, though are easily disposed of.

1. Where is the arrest warrant? Answer: The Soviet Union was a police state. Toth, a foreign national and a reporter (reporters were widely suspected and with good reason to be spies), was seen being passed information by someone who worked in a closed institute, a laboratory chief, no less. The lab chief was almost certainly executed under Article 64 of the USSR Criminal code, Betrayal of the homeland. Bio-Physics was a Soviet code phrase for all sorts of experimentation not officially supportable by the strictly materialist, 3D Marxist-Leninist dialectical materialism, to include genetics. Thus it was militarily, scientifically and politically sensitive.

Per the Wiki, Treason was punished with either 10-15 years in the Gulag and all property confiscated or death, likewise with property confiscated. For an example of how this works in an espionage case, see Suvorov, INSIDE THE AQUARIUM, page 116.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Soviet_Union

Continuing, closed institutes are just that. Closed. They have guards, security checkpoints, etc. For a look at that world, please see Cockburn's THE THREAT, pp. 90-93. And remember, this is a country where there weren't even phone directories. You had to put in a request and wait, sometimes for days, to get an ordinary citizen's residential number.

I've looked for the institute, and there's either a translation garble, flawed memory, or maybe an outright deception, as in KGB sting. The biophotons, though, are quite real.

http://www.bioexplorer.net/Institutes/more3.htm

International Institute of Biophysics

Presentation of the International Institute of Biophysics (IIB), the biggest association working on biophotons, founded for an interdisciplinary approach of the understanding and the investigation of living systems. 14 Organizations (governmental research Institutes and Universities) are connected all over the world.

Here's the site, complete not only with an actual full color example of biophotons, but with the name F.A. Popp, who figures prominently in founding biophotonics. IOW, the information Toth was charged with receiving was bleeding edge stuff.

http://www.lifescientists.de/

2. By Western analysts, Ebon is almost certainly speaking of intelligence analysts who spoke to him on deep background and/or whose intelligence product he was slipped. As a general rule, intelligence analysts aren't personally identified. Rather, whatever agency or group that produced the report is, and whoever heads that is usually listed. I have told you where you can find and see for yourself some of the now declassified then core classified assessments made early in the game about what the Soviets and Warsaw Pact were up to in the psi area.

3. Dr. August Stern specifically talked about what he personally observed happening in the institute where he worked and what he was told by colleagues regarding the ever increasing KGB involvement at the institutes. You can look up the interviews with him.

Here's one of his books.

http://www.antiqbook.com/boox/jul/101930.shtml

He's supposed to be mentioned here, but I'm so tired I can't find his name. Regardless, this page has an excellent distillation of what the Soviets were doing, who was doing it, which named institute, where, how it was protected, and what the results were. Recommend reading this after seeing those four short vids. Parts of the once classified DIA study, Controlled Offensive Behavior--USSR are available via hyperlink from this. Even includes a description of Soviet RV (quite different from ours) and RV countermeasures.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vision_remota/esp_visionremota_9b.htm

If you're really serious about wanting to see the evidence, I've presented plenty. If, though, you're looking to just keep bashing me for my perceived research inadequacies in your view, then we're not likely to make much headway. Really makes me wonder, though, how if I was so incompetent at research, I was repeatedly promoted, given awards for creativity in defense applications, lionized by customers and management alike, and offered my own project and team back in my military aerospace days?

What you fail to understand is that I'm producing in hours, while sleep deprived, work that used to take days and weeks to produce. Further, I'm generating it on the fly, not pondering it for days on end, comparing notes with colleagues, etc. So far, you have expressed neither appreciation for, nor interest in, any of what I've dug up. To the contrary, your entire focus has been on finding a vulnerable point and relentlessly attacking me over that. Meanwhile, I've painstakingly responded to point after point that you've raised, and I've done so here yet again.

I've shown you evidence not merely of Russian psi theory, but of highly successful, heavily funded, closely guarded large scale experimental work spanning decades, as well as given examples of actual fielded capabilities, to include psychotronic devices and the attacks on our Moscow embassy personnel. The link summarizes a bunch of epidemiological studies on radar (microwave) effects, two of which specifically relate to the Moscow irradiation incidents. They show, for example, that female employees had certain medical problems at twice the levels of their colleagues in other embassies in the region.

http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/Microwave-Effects-Goldsmith1dec97.htm

Nor have we gotten into such matters as the LIDA, subliminal commands embedded in various acoustic media ( a technique and gear the Russian government offered the U.S. for use at Waco and was refused) or some of the exotica discussed by Bearden, to include the MindSnapper, Quantum Potential Weapons, and more. For an overview of the advanced weaponry Bearden describes, please see the Weapon Slides here. For the full skinny, read his FER DE LANCE 2.

http://www.cheniere.org/images/weapons/index.html

Whole sciences have been created, incredible discoveries made, experimentally confirmed, and used against us, often without our being aware, sometimes for decades. If our planes are being remotely taken over from their pilots by manipulating their perception (two A-10 incidents Bearden documents; one pilot barely escaped; the other crashed), our people can have their behavior affected by broadcasting encoded information which can cause all sorts of wildly varying behavior and/or any illness desired, and our ambassadors can be killed and staffs sickened by extremely subtle RF manipulation based on intimate knowledge of the human body's energy fields, then they definitely have/are are using psi and related techniques for military purposes.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wilhammer]

"Further, I'm generating it on the fly, not pondering it for days on end, comparing notes with colleagues, etc."

Well, as admission it is all made up...

[Affentitten]

I'm assuming that if Churchill was a multi-class Mason/Druid he was only allowed to wear leather armour? Or was that just if he was spell casting? Would the use of iron weapons be an issue?