What happens to dismounts when they lose their ride in RL?

[George MC]

I'm curious. I'm playtesting a large armoured combined arms scenario on a very large map. I manged to lose several Bradley IFVs to enemy fire, although most of the dismounts survived. The rest of the company was hightailing it to cover and a dismount point to assault their objective.

My query is, what would happen in RL if such an event ocurred? Would some of the unit turn back for them and cram everyone on board, or would the guys who have just lost their ride go firm around or near the KO'd vehicle and wait till the fighting was over, or a follow on unit picked em up? I'm sure the answer is 'depends'!

[Secondbrooks]

I doupt that there is rule for such thing, it's hard to say in text book if situation can be somewhere in between hell and heaven, so i quess answer is: "It depends."

But forexample this kind saying crosses to my mind: "Best aid to your wounded buddy can be to keep enemy down or drive him away" I quess this same applies in larger scale and i would highlight word 'can'.

[gibsonm]

George,

You can’t turn back and “cram everyone on board” as the vehicle is already “full”.

If the infantry are safe (i.e. not taking fire) then they can continue on task. If they are being cut up by who/whatever destroyed the Bradleys, then you need to neutralize, suppress or mask that fire and get them out.

Failure to do so just means you’ll lose more Bradleys in the “rescue” to the same units that destroyed the first lot.

But of course you had someone providing mutual support to this moving group in the first place, didn’t you? So they should be ideally placed to conduct this suppression task.

[SgtMuhammed]

During the run of the battle a lot would depend on where the vehicle got hit. In most instances the dismounts would pull security around the track and form kind of a ready reserve. If they have some vital equipment then a follow-on track or the 1SG might come by and get that team but generally they will care for the wounded and try to get what they can out of the track. Or they will try to get down and hide from whatever just killed their ride. Consolidating units and finding a new ride will usually have to wait for the major shooting to end.

[George MC]

Thanks for that guys

Confirms what I thought might happen but good to hhear it from the horse's mouth.

Cheers fur noo

george

ps Mark: err... I sort of neglected my overwatch which is how/why they were clobbered... I was a bit peeved I must admit especially as I had been admiring my attack plan up and until then...

[flamingknives]

There's an account in Prof. Richard Holmes' "Dusty Warriors" of a situation where seventeen men cram into the back of a Warrior in order to get out.

The troop compartment of a Warrior is pretty cosy for the seven it normally carries.

[gibsonm]

Certainly, you can cram people in if "sh*ts are trumps".

But that is an extreme circumstance (maybe 2% of the time). The rest of the time you wouldn't, especially if the people who might be providing the lift are meant to be doing something else.

BTW: I've seen 35 soldiers (no webbing) crammed into a M113 and 15 I think it was crammed into a Leopard turret (in not on) as part of a Regt sports day, so you can fit a lot of people in if you want to go to extremes. Neither vehicle could actually operate with these numbers in them though (before someone demands that we increase vehicle passenger capacity).

[flamingknives]

17 with webbing and equipment? I don't think that it should be part of the game, but the most improbable things do get improvised.

Actually, something like allowing a certain number additional men in, on the basis that survivability is reduced (higher chance of hitting something) any passenger may get injured (get your elbow out of my eye!), troops get fatigued (hot and stuffy and smitty from 2 section keeps trying it on) and debus time is substantially increased (Reverse tetris)

I think that the more usual situation is that a unit will have a certain amount of spare lift to send in if you need to get guys out.

[gibsonm]

Actually,

It worse than that.

The turret can't traverse in case it crunches someone, etc.

It just shouldn't be done.

[Paper Tiger]

It seems that this discussion is about what happens DURING a battle but I'm interested to know what happens to the poor suckers AFTER the action is over. The enemy has gone and its' time to pack up and move on either to the next objective or back homr. Does somebody come to pick up those without a ride (ie trucks) or do they have to walk.

And a related point, is it feasible that they might receive a replacement vehicle shortly afterwards, ie the same day?

[gibsonm]

Well assuming their side “wins” (gets very untidy if they don’t), the norm would be.

The force that lost the vehicles would prop if the loss of those vehicles has a major impact (say a 1 x Tk Sqn, 2 x Coy Cbt Team looses a Coy worth of Bradley) and re-org on or near the line of exploitation near the enemy objective and they would collect the soldiers and put in a request for replacement vehicles.

If the loss wasn’t that big (say the above grouping losses a PL of Bradley’s), then they might well push on to exploit whatever success they made and the guys left behind would be collected and brought forward by transport elements. Again once things settled down the unit would request replacement vehicles and crews and they would marry up with the dismounts.

If the unit was badly mauled then it might just be cobbled together with individual dismounts acting as replacements, once they had been brought forward.

They are a lot of variables to consider.

[Paper Tiger]

Thanks for the reply Mark. That helps a lot. The reason I'm asking is because I'm designing a campaign in which all the scenarios are fought within a single day, albeit within a relatively small area. I'm trying to keep it as realistic as possible so if some units lose their rides, they turn up at the next mission without them. Within a 24 hour framework, I'm thinking they won't get a new ride for the next mission, therefore replacements between scenarios are set at 0. And if they lose 50%+ of their force, the company/companies are not available again in the campaign.

[gibsonm]

Well depending on what “a relatively small area“ actually is (say 5km’s, but not 20km, ...) they might just walk to rejoin the unit.

[Gene-]

There's already a bunch of decent info in this thread, so I'll just go ahead and say that FM7-7 is a pretty easy read on IFVs/carriers if you need some specific play-by-plays laid out in order to absorb this content easier/quicker. Hope this helps.

[Splinty]

Generally the 1st SGT or XO will bring the medical and recovery elements to the damaged or destroyed vehicle as soon as the tactical situation allowed. In the meantime the crew of the damaged track would pull off any classified items and tend to their wounded. The XO or 1SG would also bring a security element and the company medics if available. At this point the decision would be made whether to call a chopper for medivac or to ground evac the wounded. The recovery NCO would determine if the damaged vehicle is recoverable or the vehicle should be destroyed in place. The uninjured crewmembers would generally be evacuated with the wounded.

[George MC]

Many thnaks for all the posts guys - interesting reading, and it's cleared that one up me. Many Thanks all