konstantine Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I was just playing a QB as Syrians and was fielded a platoon of BMP-2, equipped with 4 AT-5s apiece. I encountered a boatload of Strykers. For the duration of the game my BMPs peppered the Strykers with 30mm cannon fire, KOing 2 and immobilizing two. Two more went unscathed. Not one AT-5 was fired despite many variations on the target, cover arc and movement themes. I was within 500m. Was I too close? (Notably the enemy sat in position in setup posture without moving. I finished the game only to find eight Strykers sitting in their setup zone with unembarked troops strewn about.) I have tried to get Bradleys to fire TOWs with a similar lack of success. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfritch Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I have this exact same question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Me too, except from the other side. Are there any training scenarios with detailed instructions around? I've been playing for hours, read the manual, and I think I'm getting there, but am still having trouble putting together what seqeunce works best. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 It seems to me that vehicles use their weapons on their own, unfortunately there isn't any command to force the use of a weapon instead the other (even considering the presence of Target and Target Light, which i think was intended to substitute the old Use main gun or Use mg only). But in CMSF we recognize vehicles have multiple weps like AT missiles, in this case would be nice to use them or not as you want, but as I said seems we are on the hands of AI, and so we are boned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeo Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Yes, some AFVs seems to be very trigger happy with their coax MGs but use their main guns very sparingly (not to speak about ATGMs). To be honest, I experienced no disasters because of this behaviour but last time I saw it it was literally shoking! I ended up with three BMP-1s and four Strykers confined into a cramped "urban court". In the four or five minutes that this odd situation lasted, the BMPs, in spite of having a clear LOS to take flank shots at functioning enemy AFVs just few metres away, managed to fire only a couple shots with their 73mm guns, although they continued peppering the Strykers with MG fire from the beginning to the end. BTW the Strykers didn't event try to back up or move... but that's another story! Regards, Amedeo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 BMPs behaviour needs to be fixed: -first it's ok they don't spam missiles by default, but I think that a direct order by the player would be much better, this would also simulate the hestitation but also the commander decisions about the use of such precious weapons. -second I can't see any "loading" in progress message on the interface. And I don't understand what makes the BMP fire its main gun or not. Sometimes they fire a shot and nothing more, sometimes they take ages to fire a second shot. Rarely they throw in more than 3 shots... -the continous use of 5.56 MG on light but still armored vehicles like a Stryker is nonesense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I have two thoughts: 1. Since the AT-5 is externally mounted, did you make sure that your BMP-2 was opened up (on the Special command pane)? If they were buttoned up then it might not have been able to fire the AT-5. 2. Was it under a minimum range for the AT-5? One unfortunate omission, it seems, is range information for the weapon systems. Someone on a different thread was talking about getting stuck with a bunch of AT-4s on a map that was too small for them to be used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 1) Gunner was outside turret, but I noticed that sometimes they take the initiative to exit themselves in order to fire the missile. Also sometimes it's not possible to force the gunner to stay out. In any case this isn't the case of a BMP-2 for instance, but the problem is there too... 2) The fact that minimum ranges are not displayed is really annoying (number 19374628 in the actual bug list..), but I've seen BMP-1s shot missiles at targets less than 100m away... (try that small scenaro "high altitude fight" or something like that, with 3 or 4 BMP-1s in it) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 I am pretty sure I tried everything with the BMP to get it to fire. I'll try the same settings tonight just to be sure. Minimum range may be the problem, I considered that but I had units from 350-600 meters away. I wonder if this issue may be something along the lines of the tungsten round selection in CMx1. If so, in this game keeping missiles reserved solely for tanks seems a bit excessive. Especially if I've run out of 30mm and there are lots of live Strykers sitting around. Maybe this question will be answered by the full manual. Still, I think some sort of command option to fire the main weapon is necessary. Ultimately the human player should be able to determine when mission priorities supercede AI reluctance. If that's indeed the reason why they don't fire, and I wasn't just too close. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThorn Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I had the same problem with Bradleys not firing there TOWs. On one QB I had 4 Bradleys ambush about 8 BMPs at 800-900 meters. Not one Bradley fired a TOW but, all 4 were taken out in 20sec by AT-5's fired from the BMPs. Can't get them to use the TOWs on buildings either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Originally posted by Cameroon: 2. Was it under a minimum range for the AT-5? One unfortunate omission, it seems, is range information for the weapon systems. Someone on a different thread was talking about getting stuck with a bunch of AT-4s on a map that was too small for them to be used. Minimum range can definitely be an issue for ATGMs, but the AT-5 has a much shorter minimum range than earlier Russian ATGMs. Under 100m, IIRC. So that shouldn't be the problem. If we were talking about an AT-3, things would be different. . . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Here is some data I found on Russian ATGM minimum ranges: AT-2, 3, and 6: 500m AT-4: 70m AT-5: 100m AT-7: 40m Some Links: Global Security: Russian Equipment AT-7 Stuff Minimum range for the TOW is 70 meters. I have been having trouble with getting BMPs to fire their missiles as well. That and trying to get Strykers to quit annoying T72s with their .50 cal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 12.7mm against T-72, uh? Nice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Yeah, if you're the T72. I tried that one at NTC, it doesn't even work with MILES. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius Quilty Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 The AT 3/4/5 use by the BMP's is indeed problematic. Probably the optics/Fire systems are too easily damaged by 12.7mm fire? I usually fail to check this, because of playing in RT mode. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 The problem stays even if AT missile is 100% OK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by Kieme(ITA): The problem stays even if AT missile is 100% OK. What about the optics though? Not that I'm saying there isn't a problem, just considering the possibilities 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 It seems to me that the BMPs are a little too hesitant to fire their weapons, too...although another problem could be that they gunner has been killed. This has happened to me a couple of times - the stryker's 12.7 MG can penetrate the BMP fairly easily from the front, causing crew casualties...and it seems like the gunner is the one most often killed. Apparently the driver can't fire the weapons on his own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 On the buttoned or not issue, you can fire the ATGM from a buttoned BMP, but you have to unbutton to reload. I am talking about real life, not how it is in the game (though I would expect them to get that right). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 Well in the original scenario I had 5 BMPs and they all refrained from firing the AT-5. I doubt all of their gunners/optics were simultaneously trashed but it's a possibility. I didn't notice any problems when I cycled through the units in the orders phase (playing WEGO) while attempting manual targetting. I suspect that the real issue is that they are refraining from using ATGMs vs Stryker troop carriers, which is what I was facing. My T-72 in a different scenario refrained from firing on Stryker troop carriers as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morjit Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I've seen a Brad fire a TOW missile, once. It was against some Inf in a trench. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq): Here is some data I found on Russian ATGM minimum ranges: AT-2, 3, and 6: 500m AT-4: 70m AT-5: 100m AT-7: 40m Some Links: Global Security: Russian Equipment AT-7 Stuff Minimum range for the TOW is 70 meters. I have been having trouble with getting BMPs to fire their missiles as well. That and trying to get Strykers to quit annoying T72s with their .50 cal. I agree on all of them but the AT-5. according to my copy of the World Equipment Guide dated 2005 the AT-5 min range is 75m not 100m, but what do I know JohnO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 According to Global Security it's 100m. No date for that figure though, yours is probably more accurate. I need to update my own books haven't gotten a new one in years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clcaldwell Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Heh -- yes -- but what is it in the game? Looks like another FAQ entry. -- nick 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I think there is a bug in the TAC AI behavior. For example, when you order your MGS to fire at a section of wall, it will fire one round and then continue to use it's MG. When firing the MG the gunner can't reload. So, you have to cancel the fire order to get the gunner to reload, and then after that you can fire another shell at the wall. I am not sure and I am at work currently so can't check, but the BMPs might have the same issue. Sometimes firing the MG might be the wanted behavior, sometimes not. IMHO there needs to be additional user input about what weapons to use. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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