666 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Originally posted by Sneaksie: LOS will be shown by color-coded 'fire' line like in CC series. Will this feature be in the patch or in the addon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanker15 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 All the info I've gathered here about the addon pleases me greatly. I can't wait till it comes out, will it come out this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeboy Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 for those not in thee know, what is the CC system for above answer re los? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted October 7, 2007 Author Share Posted October 7, 2007 Originally posted by 666: Will this feature be in the patch or in the addon? [/QB]In one of the patches for current version, maybe even in upcoming one (in case of lucky turn of events). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Originally posted by Freeboy: for those not in thee know, what is the CC system for above answer re los? Its a color coded line showing partial and total LoF obstacles. When you click the 'fire' button, and move the mouse with the 'fire' icon, a line is drawn from your unit to where you put the mouse pointer, showing if there's a clear line of shight, partially blocked or totally blocked, and where the obstacles are. So you may see a green line until it reaches a group of trees, where it turns yellow meaning partial LoF block, and later turn black when it reaches a small slope that totally covers the target. I'ts really very user-friendly, like almost all Close Combat series interface. It also works in deployment phase, and you dont need to point to a enemy unit to show the LoF line, just put the mouse anywhere in the map and it will tell you if that unit has a good LoF to there. A precious tool when planning defensive positions. Another great feature of CC LoS/F tool is that also shows expected weapon effectiveness against that target with a color coded circle around the mouse pointer when you put it over an enemy unit, taking in account weapon accuracy and range, plus target´s cover and armor in the case of vehicles (Green= good chance to deal damage, Yellow= small chance to deal damage, Black= don't even bother). [ October 07, 2007, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: nachinus ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeboy Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 thanks, that would benefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted October 9, 2007 Author Share Posted October 9, 2007 There are several 'work in progress' screenshots showing new 'fire' command line with LOS/LOF indication: http://ww2.games.1c.ru/?action=screenshot&groupid=52 [ October 11, 2007, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Sneaksie ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
666 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Nice! Cannot wait:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Oooooh, excellent!!!! That's exactly what I was looking for!. Now a little more work in infantry behaviour and I'll tatoo a super-size 1C's logo on my chest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichenberg Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Great!! That will hopefully take the fire out of eventually future discussion about LoS/LoF and will help alot to understand ToW better. Sneaksie, you have mentioned that the line is for LoS AND LoF. I think LoS is self explanatory for the line change in colour. I assume in the screenshots we always see the LoS line (It is green right in front of each tank - a blind spot for the weapons of each tank). How is it handled with LoF? Will we just see 2 colours, e.g. green (free LoF) and black (no LoF) or will we see more information to the LoF line you have mentioned? How can I change from the LoS line to the LoF line?? Will I maybe get additional information when I move a LoS line to a target (e.g. "target visible but no clear LoF")?? Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 LOF indicator is the mouse cursor, when it is lit (red), unit has LOF to that point, and can't fire when it's black (it has middle positions too). It's possible to have LOF but no LOS (blind ground attack is possible with reduced accuracy). Green (for now) part of the LOS line actually shows the area where unit sees through trees and bushes. This small zone differs for unit types (only 5m for tanks, 10m for guns and infantry). It allows to hide behind trees and bushes (you will see through it while enemy will detect your gun (for example) through this bush only at very close distance if it doesn't shoot). The system is kinda complex, because your hidden gun becomes visible after shot for some time (because of sound, smoke, etc.). It all depends on obstacles too, enemy unit will see your gun after shot only if there are not too many obstacles between it and enemy unit. In short, in this case enemy unit--------------------bush-bush-gun fires enemy will see the gun, while in another case enemy unit-----------bush----------bush-gun fires enemy won't see it. Naturally, big bushes are much better for hiding than trees because it's difficult to hide a 3m wide gun behind 50cm wide tree trunk:) Also, there are many parameters (for example, 'revealing' of the firing unit heavily depends on weapon type - pistol, rifle, gun, etc.) and they are defined in visibility.ini (which means they are moddable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichenberg Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Thanks alot for your fast and detailed answer. The LoF indicator is understood with one exception: Originally posted by Sneaksie: ...It's possible to have LOF but no LOS (blind ground attack is possible with reduced accuracy)... I always thought it could be the opposite: You can have LoS but no LoF (e.g. you have LoS to a tank, but no LoF to the hull of the tank because it is in a hull down position). When you talk of a blind ground attack is it like indirect fire? If so, what weapons can shoot indirect fire - isn't that mainly off-map artillery, mortars(!) and e.g. the Nashorn? Or are you talking of an area fire command (e.g. you have LoF to an area, but you do can not spot any enemy units in that area)? Originally posted by Sneaksie: ... Green (for now) part of the LOS line actually shows the area where unit sees through trees and bushes. This small zone differs for unit types (only 5m for tanks, 10m for guns and infantry)... I assume that means I can sneak up infantry (in a best case scenario with good concealment like bushes for the infantry) up to 10m to a gun emplacement and up to 5m to a tank before I will get inevitably spotted? Talking of concealment for the infantry - will infantry get concealment from tall grass in the patch/add-on?? Right now it just seems to be eye candy. Originally posted by Sneaksie: enemy unit--------------------bush-bush-gun fires enemy will see the gun, while in another case enemy unit-----------bush----------bush-gun fires enemy won't see it. Naturally, big bushes are much better for hiding than trees because it's difficult to hide a 3m wide gun behind 50cm wide tree trunk:) Also, there are many parameters (for example, 'revealing' of the firing unit heavily depends on weapon type - pistol, rifle, gun, etc.) and they are defined in visibility.ini (which means they are moddable). This is very good news. I think it will add much to the gameplay and feel of ToW. Especially with the LoS tool at hand for the players it will explain alot of what is going on "behind the scenes". Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txema Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 LOF indicator is the mouse cursor, when it is lit (red), unit has LOF to that point, and can't fire when it's black (it has middle positions too). It's possible to have LOF but no LOS (blind ground attack is possible with reduced accuracy). Green (for now) part of the LOS line actually shows the area where unit sees through trees and bushes. This small zone differs for unit types (only 5m for tanks, 10m for guns and infantry). It allows to hide behind trees and bushes (you will see through it while enemy will detect your gun (for example) through this bush only at very close distance if it doesn't shoot). The system is kinda complex, because your hidden gun becomes visible after shot for some time (because of sound, smoke, etc.). It all depends on obstacles too, enemy unit will see your gun after shot only if there are not too many obstacles between it and enemy unit. In short, in this case enemy unit--------------------bush-bush-gun fires enemy will see the gun, while in another case enemy unit-----------bush----------bush-gun fires enemy won't see it. Naturally, big bushes are much better for hiding than trees because it's difficult to hide a 3m wide gun behind 50cm wide tree trunk:) Also, there are many parameters (for example, 'revealing' of the firing unit heavily depends on weapon type - pistol, rifle, gun, etc.) and they are defined in visibility.ini (which means they are moddable). Excellent !!! This tool will improve gameplay a lot. I can't wait !!! Txema Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Originally posted by Reichenberg: When you talk of a blind ground attack is it like indirect fire? If so, what weapons can shoot indirect fire - isn't that mainly off-map artillery, mortars(!) and e.g. the Nashorn? Or are you talking of an area fire command (e.g. you have LoF to an area, but you do can not spot any enemy units in that area)? For example, nearby tree blocks part of the hill for your gun and it can't see anything behind it. But if your other units see infantry on that part of the hill you can order your gun to shoot through the tree at the infantry - it can't see them, but it will shoot with reduced accuracy. Thus your gun has LOF (tree can't stop gun projectiles), but no LOS, it's like it shoots at general direction of the enemy. I assume that means I can sneak up infantry (in a best case scenario with good concealment like bushes for the infantry) up to 10m to a gun emplacement and up to 5m to a tank before I will get inevitably spotted? Unit ignore only trees or bushes at that distance, other obstacles are not ignored. In general - yes, you can. In addition, there are distances at which unit is always 'spotted' because of sound, for infantry it's 3m. Thus a soldier will know that there is enemy soldier behind a stone fence if distance between them is less than 3m and will lob a grenade there. All these parameters are in visibility.ini too. In addon sound will be handled in a more complex manner though. Talking of concealment for the infantry - will infantry get concealment from tall grass in the patch/add-on?? Right now it just seems to be eye candy.Right now grass doesn't affect visibility, but in addon it will provide concealment (it's planned). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichenberg Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Thanks Sneaksie! The assumption that shells can fly through bushes and trees is understandable.... is there a chance that these projectiles will actually detonate in the trees or bushes That sound detection is independent from this "5/10m" spotting is impressive - I thought that would be included in the "5/10m" issue. Hearing that we will get a separate sound detection routine is amazing!! Same goes for the concealment in grass. Awesome that it will make it in to the add-on. Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridley Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Something I haven't seen discussed here, not sure if this is the best thread or start a new. I'd like to see some squad logic. Currently, all individuals seem to operate independently. I'd like to be able to select a commander, give orders, and have the squad follow. It would really eliminate one of the most unrealistic, RTS-like aspects of the game... Individuals could always be detached... I'm still new to the game, so if I'm missing something, or if this has been discusses elsewhere, please share! Thanks, sg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Mond Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Any plans for ray tracing the ground, having directional shadows so the leeward side of hills and the dead ground actually have shading. It looks horrible and confuses game play the way it is now. No directional light shadows on the terrain. Execpt for trees which even confuses the eye more as the ground is not shaded. I could better judge dead ground concealment, line of fire, and hull down if POV Ray was applied. So how's about it? kick out the 300 bucks buy a ray tracing program and properly shadow the maps. This would greatly enhance game play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 Gridley In addon squads will act as a whole (soldiers follow commander, squad is selectable with one click, etc.) Nikki Mond It's because most battles in the game happen near noon. Look at the landscape slopes around 4pm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Originally posted by Gridley: I'd like to see some squad logic. Currently, all individuals seem to operate independently. I'd like to be able to select a commander, give orders, and have the squad follow. It would really eliminate one of the most unrealistic, RTS-like aspects of the game... And some squad tactical behaviour would be welcome too. Like squad MGs lying surpressive fire as the rest of the squad assaults, tactical movement using cover with squad mates covering the advance of the others, some coordination when attacking, and that kind of things. It would be great for the player experience so we don't have to micromanage to the absurd, and it would improve AI performance as well, because it currently uses infantry very very bad, like banzai charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridley Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Originally posted by Sneaksie: Gridley In addon squads will act as a whole (soldiers follow commander, squad is selectable with one click, etc.) In the immortal words of Paris Hilton: "That's Hot!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 Behold the translation of our internal guide for modelers along with two models from the game in 3ds Max format! http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=68&t=000040 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnN Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I have to say this game is getting close to being the one I've been dreaming of ever since they invented computer games! Now all someone needs to do is reverse engineer the CC2 campaign engine... Have fun Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bus Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 About campaign engine: Well, I want more to se the CC4/5 campaign engine I have 2 questions about the next patch: Are we going to see Pz-IIIg and Pz-IVg in next patch? Is there going to be any North Africa campaign or missions and maps? cheers/ bus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 Patch will not add new units, addon will. African campaign and corresponding maps are not planned for now (until addon release). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnasher Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Any clues as to what new units are planned for the addon? Static AA Guns, Mortars, new aircraft, trucks,tank destroyers, tanks, nations, scenarios? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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