Good work Battlefront.

[SGT_56M]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

All in all, I am really enjoying the game. It has some minor issues, but I’m pleased with the responsiveness and effort on Battlefront’s part to get these issues resolved.

I had little doubt there would be any issues with the engine. IL-2 is a great game, and TOW is proving to be a nice adaptation of that engine.

There is a play style change that took some getting used to. I started playing with the old mindset of limited turns and therefore would charge into the battles assuming that there was limited time. But you know what they say about assuming. Once I slowed down and approached combat from a real world perspective (recon, movement to contact, bounding overwatch) the enjoyment level has gone through the roof without diminishing the level of challenge in play.

So far I have just been playing the allied campaign.

It’s the little details that have really grabbed me in this game. Sending out two privates to recon the forward position while the rest hold back or crawl forward has created some very exciting moments of play. I also greatly appreciate the moments of pure excitement such as on the Avalanche mission where my forward infantry squad on the reverse slope is attacked by the initial charge of tanks over the crest of the hill. Infantry were getting chewed up by the tanks. My AT soldier turns and is able to disable one tank at under 50m while his buddies are falling back. Before he can turn and withdraw, the supporting infantry started to overrun the position. I had him switch to grenades and perform a blocking maneuver. He got quite a few of them before he was finally killed. This has happened over and over on almost every battle so far.

I love the situation of my infantry positioned behind a wall and as enemy infantry approach on the other side, zooming in to watch both sides lobbing grenades over the wall. Boom boom boom! Then the Germans storming through the gate and mass chaos.

When the map editor is released, and in and when infantry can enter buildings, I can only drool in anticipation of the user made scenarios we will begin to see.

All in all, very nice contribution to the genre. It gives me high hopes for the playability of CM:SF in real time, though I may fall back to the WEGO style just so I can rewind.

[kip]

Thank you! Yeah, lets not whine about relearning all the control action and tactics. Lets say TOW is a worth while game that once you develop the skills of the controls and the far superior tactical capibilites you find yourself engrossed into a challenging game unlike any other. This game is well balanced between the infantry and the armor. Thank you for that! My fav is to move a flank of infantry to a forward LOS. Place my mg in a hold position plus 1 or 2 good rifleman with LOS for covering fire. (also to make sure my mg or whatever important infantry weapon stays in play if one of my important infantry should fall or become seriously injured. Move the rest into a point blank position with a tank or two offering support that is disrupting the emenies position. And before long that postion is captured with whatever gems the emeny left behind. I say lets support Battlefront and 1C for a job well done. Lets show the marketing department that their calculations were correct, we love the game. We look forward to purchasing a expanion pack and or a sequel.

[Vergeltung]

nice sentiments gents. there is a steep learning curve, and I think alot of people are letting that get in the way of their good times.

a little patience goes a long way. if the game was easy, we'd hear nothing but "oh man the AI sucks" etc.

[SGT_56M]

No, the AI is bright. I had an MG soldier hiding in a bush just inside a courtyard. Two Germans cam through the gate and we gunned down.

Then grenades burst all around my MG and about 5 more infantry flooded the courtyard. Wish I had screenshots of it, it looked like they formed a stack before they came in.

[handihoc]

Yep, this is a great game. Patience and sound tactics will win, but it's a real challenge, and that's a very rare thing with a single player vs AI game. Once the MP gets seriously running - wow! Great work from BF and 1C. This is surely the start of something big.

[ May 04, 2007, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: handihoc ]

[Cochise]

Aye, great game.

Patience, diligence and strategy required.

[ChrisND]

I am in the middle of an Allied scenario Lottich (?). I have to say this scenario friggin rules and exemplifies ToW's strengths. I've been playing the scenario at eye-level, methodically clearing each compound with the infantry, and the attention to detail, rich sound are just awesome.

I think this game is best suited to the platoon level comabt, you can really enjoy it's details.

[kip]

I agree. The large battles are hard to micro manage. I try to engage aggressivly only one position at a time. Also I use a lot of the advice that I read on how to have your tanks hold position and collectly wipe out the emeny tanks or AT positions. While my tanks are doing this I move my troops forward, I notice in campaign mode as your gunnners and crew experience increase they are successful at getting kills even when they are in storm mode. Shooting short with HE rounds works really well on AT and infantry.

I havent tried the MP and I don’t think I will for a while. I can’t imagine not being able to pause and keep it all straight. Plus the jury is still out that multiple waypoints would be good in this game.

[flintlock]

Originally posted by Cochise:

Aye, great game.

Patience, diligence and strategy required.

Sound tactics help too.

[Mannheim Tanker]

Originally posted by SGT_56M:

No, the AI is bright.

Yeah, it's so brilliant that unless you micromanage your orders, you'll have a dozen men standing in the open while enemy MGs and tanks mow them down.

Guys, don't mistake all criticism for whining. Yeah, I recognize that a few players have been whining incessantly about nit-picky things, but you have to realize that many players are not satisfied with the level of micromanagement required to play the game well. This goes way beyond what one would call sound tactics. I personally feel that I shouldn't have to order my AT team to switch from his SMG to his bazooka to engage a tank. That should be programmed into the basic AI routine IMO.

If you are comfortable with that amount of babysitting and handholding, good for you. Seriously. OTOH, don't dismiss the criticism along my line of thinking out of hand. Recognize that a lot of players would be much more happy with an RTS style game that intelligently handled some of the more basic orders (like weapon and route selection).

[SGT_56M]

Not trying to detract from your tastes, but I kinda like the micro management aspect of it as it keeps me focused on the heat of the moment.

Guess our tastes just differ.

[Smokestack Lightning]

Thanks for the grenade tips. I shall try them next time before I charge a town. I figured out that choosing the bazooka and the ammo and then targeting armor is much better than letting them decide on thier own.

Micro managing is the key. Pausing the game right when you start and issuing orders is a must. I don't see how multiplayer works, unless you are controlling smaller forces.

I love the close up views! I gonna start frapsing some battles to show off the details you may not notice when you are commanding from above. Riding in a tank and moving the camera from side to side provides a great view. Same with following a scout when he is out probing.

This game has a hard learning curve. Took me 3 sessions to get the hang of it and I'm a CM CC vet. I'm still discovering more each time I play. Grenade volly incoming to my next game!

[kip]

The bazooka issue, I havent looked around on discussions about that. But I’ve experienced that also. Why doesnt he switch to his bazooka while an enemy tank is within bazooka range. I would say this is debatable. Maybe the individuals experience level come into play?. Well one way to workaround that issue is to elminate the problem. Just decide the threat level, and if the probably of a enemy tank rolling into range of the infantry is great, then simply have the the bazooka holder drop whatever other weapons he has. And move on.

[monkeezgob]

I have to agree with Mannheim on this one. Clearly certain individuals went way beyond the mark in their behaviour and the way they responded to the game, but I'm a little dismayed to see the manner in which any critcism seems to constantly be equated with whining.

The game has great potential, but there are some issues with the AI that call for such a level of micromanagement that the whole notion of 'real time' combat/strategy becomes problematic.

Personally, given the level of micromanagement required, I would have found it more enjoyable if the scale of many of the scenarios was smaller. But that's just my two cents and plenty are enjoying it as it is.

Although I didn't purchase the game after I tried the demo I'll certainly keep an eye on developments once it has been patched.

[Fetchez la Vache]

This game does need micro-managing, that's true. I like that, some people don't. I do think it's daft when I see a AT soldier firing his SMG at a tank though.

Personally I find a few minor issues that are rather annoying, but not in the hysterical way some peeps have been shouting at the moon. [pun intended...]

The biggest single problem with this game for me are the scenarios. Too much reliance with sudden, unexpected, reinforcements to change the flow of the battle. One-sided battles that require many save-games to get pass. They can be improved imo.

[ChrisND]

Agree all around for the most part. Although I don't necessarily mind micro-managing, I find it just a bit unreal when I catch my tank crews shooting at infantry with AP.

The scenarios are definetly all cut from the cloth - Uber tanks everywhere, killer, super-accurate super-responsive arty, and wierd reinforcements. Can't wait to see user scenarios, they should be great!

PS A great example of a good scenario for this game is the Lottich scenario in the Allied campaign.

[Madmatt]

Hey guys, I am going to mention the issue about the AI not always using the correct weapon against armor threats to 1C. Yup, I noticed that too.

They used to be great at it and I never had to order them to switch weapons, but for some reason, they arent as inclined to do so as they once were. Hopefully, it will not be a hard tweak to make.

Madmatt

[Mannheim Tanker]

Good comments, guys. Glad to see that I'm not the only one with 'ammo-envy'.

My other big pet peeve is the utter lack of concealment. There's something wrong when enemy tanks can spot your sniper sneaking around at over 700 meters. It's not like they have the thermal sights at their disposal that I was lucky to have on the M1! I'm really trying to like this game, but there are too many issue that just stretch the limit of plausibility. I don't want to play a fantasy game.

[SGT_56M]

Another important tid bit I learned the hard way... When assigning XP at the end of a battle, be sure to click the "all" toggle before hitting the "automatiac" button. otherwise only the currently selected soldier gets XP.

I was wondering why my troops were not improving.

[Vergeltung]

Originally posted by SGT_56M:

Another important tid bit I learned the hard way... When assigning XP at the end of a battle, be sure to click the "all" toggle before hitting the "automatiac" button. otherwise only the currently selected soldier gets XP.

I was wondering why my troops were not improving.

that IS a good tip. thanks!