THE Sabot Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 ****Will this be in the game? There's a huge dif in target aqiusition. ****Speaking of which..thats one thing that always gripes my ass in games...the "instant" aqiusition of any enemy targets within a units LOS. LJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyorwhat Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Well, that is the TC's job, be disconcerting if he had a newspaper up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iplaygames2 Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Yes, it's teh TCs job to spot enemy troops/fortifications. Additionally, how would a TC know if a house is occupied by enemy? Most enemy would hide if armor was rolling by. It's unfair and unrealistic to have your troops automatically spotted every time they enter a tanks LoS. That said, I do remember reading a dev post that it will be possible to hide from tanks and other vehicles. I just hope that the veteran/elite tank crews have a bonus to their enemy detection value.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Originally posted by iplaygames2: Additionally, how would a TC know if a house is occupied by enemy? Most enemy would hide if armor was rolling by. It's unfair and unrealistic to have your troops automatically spotted every time they enter a tanks LoS. Sadly doesn't matter anyway, because no entering of buildings for the troops is allowed in TOW,remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 [/qb] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Well it doesnt just have to apply to troops in building. The point of THE sabot's post is that it should be easier for an unbuttoned tank commander to spot a target as opposed to a buttoned up tank commander. The buttoned up TC would have a much more difficult time spotting tanks, AT-guns, troops, etc etc. Not just that, but also there should be some sort of modifier for how well camoflauged a tank or AT-gun or platoon of soldiers are. The profile or silohuette of a tank or ATG against a particular background should be taken in account as well. Such as a tank on a ridge or crest of a hill. But that would have to be relative to whatever unit is spotting it: Freindely tank "A" spots an enemy tank cresting a hill with no trees in the background while friendly tank "B" who is 200 meters to the left of tank "A" does not spot the enemy tank because the enemy tank is in between a treeline and Tank "B's" line of sight. In effect the enemy tank has tree's in the background of Tank "B's" line of sight but not tank "A". Thus Tank "B" may not spot the enemy tank as quickly because Tank "A" has a clear bright skyline for the enemy's silohuette to stand out against. Wow. That was longer than I expected....Im winded now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE Sabot Posted September 29, 2006 Author Share Posted September 29, 2006 ****Gunner...Thanks...thats exactly what I was trying to say! Also, sneaking up on tanks with AT inf is impossible. LJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Yea, I thought about adding that, but I was getting tired of typing....great minds think alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE Sabot Posted September 30, 2006 Author Share Posted September 30, 2006 ****But which is more frustrating to you as a gamer?....All units aquiring all targets in LOS and range, 360*, instantly... Or your units getting shot and killed from enemy units they (and you) cant "see", because of a longer "game range" or any of the sillohuette/camo/concealment factors you were talking about earlier....??? ****I actually think turret orientation should play a part in it for tanks, with a defined arc of LOS for the gunner, and a shorter, yet much wider "awareness" zone for an unbuttoned TC...but then the player would have to be able to set turret facings and that just doubles your workload right there...too much. Add in buttoning and unbuttoning...it would be way too much for controlling more than a small handfull of tanks in realtime. LJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cincinatvs Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Originally posted by THE Sabot: ****Will this be in the game? There's a huge dif in target aqiusition. ****Speaking of which..thats one thing that always gripes my ass in games...the "instant" aqiusition of any enemy targets within a units LOS. LJ Buttoned unbuttoned options are not available in ToW . The player dont have such a detailed control on AFVs. All of them will fight in buttoned status. Instant acquisition doesn't exist. Status unit, field, experience, number of man in sight are taken into account. In some situation some men in an infantery group can remain unaware for a while of a situation while the other start appropriate actions (shoting/moving etc). The same occurs for AFVs and even more as the position of the episcopes are also taken into account (From Russian designers) :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Originally posted by THE Sabot: ****But which is more frustrating to you as a gamer?....All units aquiring all targets in LOS and range, 360*, instantly... Or your units getting shot and killed from enemy units they (and you) cant "see", because of a longer "game range" or any of the sillohuette/camo/concealment factors you were talking about earlier....??? ****I actually think turret orientation should play a part in it for tanks, with a defined arc of LOS for the gunner, and a shorter, yet much wider "awareness" zone for an unbuttoned TC...but then the player would have to be able to set turret facings and that just doubles your workload right there...too much. Add in buttoning and unbuttoning...it would be way too much for controlling more than a small handfull of tanks in realtime. LJ Yeah. I hear ya. I dream of the day when computers are so fast and so powerful that graphics are not a problem and physics is not a problem. I dream of being able to model the bullet path of the MG42 while firing full auto and being able to track every bullet AND ricochets in real time. I dream of realistic real time war games being able to resolve the proper LOS of soldiers, ATGs AND tanks... buttoned and unbottend, properly. I dream of HE explosions with properly modeled shrapnel...that is random. I dream of Tanks with high fidelity modeled armor and interiors for advanced damage modeling. I dream of soldiers tanker and AT gunners with their own ability to think and resolve a situation properly...maybe even randomly. I HAVE A DREEEEEAAAAM!!!!!! But man...the coding would have to suck. Wouldn't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I dream of the holo-deck and Angelina Jolie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahoshua Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Holodecks that have physical FEEL to it would be nice....*drool* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traemyn Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Originally posted by gunnersman: I dream of being able to model the bullet path of the MG42 while firing full auto and being able to track every bullet AND ricochets in real time. hmm afaik Faces of War does this. Just have to tweak the speed and tracers a bit to make it look more realistic. I dream of soldiers tanker and AT gunners with their own ability to think and resolve a situation properly...maybe even randomly. then what will you be playing the game for? But man...the coding would have to suck. Wouldn't you think? kinda sad because all these things are possible with todays hardware, but we won't see them for a while b/c things like those dont even exist on the design list (and are at the very end for games like ToW for which I assume has a smaller budget than most big commercial games) Ordered list of importance for X new game: 1. Eye-Candy that suits the masses 2. Box-Art that suits the masses 3. Marketing that suits the masses 4. Game-play that suits the masses (probably a lot lower) 5. etc.. bleh but that makes games that actually try (ToW) that much more special I guess. All this new hype on Physics hardware/software will help push some of your dreams forward faster too. Heres to the Dreamers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athkatla Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Originally posted by THE Sabot: ****Gunner...Thanks...thats exactly what I was trying to say! Also, sneaking up on tanks with AT inf is impossible. LJ I don't see this! Given the right terrain and cover and good fieldcraft I would imagine that an Infantry AT team could quite easily sneak up on a buttoned down tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE Sabot Posted October 1, 2006 Author Share Posted October 1, 2006 ****You might not can see it, but the tank in the game can!...Point is: Tanks in the games have instant 360 degree target aqusition. It is impossible to use a "tank hunter" team or single soldier to rush from cover to cover to get into range for a shot. Even approched from the rear or what should be "blind spots", the tank will aquire and engage the inf instantly. Now, yes, you might try to blocking terrain to mask your entire approach, but then you wont have LOS to the target and might not even know its there in the first place. ****What Im saying is tanks need a reduced "situational awareness" while buttoned up. LJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athkatla Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Originally posted by THE Sabot: ****You might not can see it, but the tank in the game can!...Point is: Tanks in the games have instant 360 degree target aqusition. It is impossible to use a "tank hunter" team or single soldier to rush from cover to cover to get into range for a shot. Even approched from the rear or what should be "blind spots", the tank will aquire and engage the inf instantly. Now, yes, you might try to blocking terrain to mask your entire approach, but then you wont have LOS to the target and might not even know its there in the first place. ****What Im saying is tanks need a reduced "situational awareness" while buttoned up. LJ Ahh, tanks 'in the game' , my apologies, I thought you was referring to real life scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Originally posted by THE Sabot: ****You might not can see it, but the tank in the game can!...Point is: Tanks in the games have instant 360 degree target aqusition. It is impossible to use a "tank hunter" team or single soldier to rush from cover to cover to get into range for a shot. Even approched from the rear or what should be "blind spots", the tank will aquire and engage the inf instantly. Now, yes, you might try to blocking terrain to mask your entire approach, but then you wont have LOS to the target and might not even know its there in the first place. ****What Im saying is tanks need a reduced "situational awareness" while buttoned up. LJ CM does this, at least a bit and using more of an intentional delay instead of concrete LOS check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Yeah. I hear ya. I dream of the day when computers are so fast and so powerful that graphics are not a problem and physics is not a problem. I dream of being able to model the bullet path of the MG42 while firing full auto and being able to track every bullet AND ricochets in real time. I dream of realistic real time war games being able to resolve the proper LOS of soldiers, ATGs AND tanks... buttoned and unbottend, properly. I dream of HE explosions with properly modeled shrapnel...that is random. I dream of Tanks with high fidelity modeled armor and interiors for advanced damage modeling. I dream of soldiers tanker and AT gunners with their own ability to think and resolve a situation properly...maybe even randomly. I HAVE A DREEEEEAAAAM!!!!!! But man...the coding would have to suck. Wouldn't you think?Sounds like WWII online to me. And coding is a biotch , jusk ask CRS. They almost deliver on everything thing you ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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