Pathfinding

[metalbrew]

I wanted to relay some of my impressions on pathfinding in MOUT. A few times, I've been utterly bewildered by some of the choices my squads have made. I began to see there is a very real correlation between waypoints/destinations and the path infantry will take.

CMx1 building assumptions are completely gone. Units only enter through the door or breach as best I can tell. This has a side effect that if you ultimately intend to enter a building, your infantry will often make really dumb pathfinding decisions if you're too brief in your orders.

If you have infantry 100m from a building and give them a single order to enter the building, 9/10 they will angle their approach towards the door. If this behavior is tactically OK for the player, fine. However I was expecting the troops to move forward closely following the straight movement line and staying in the shadow of the building which was shielding them from enemy observation. This way works fine for CMx1 where troops enter from any wall. In CM:SF my bulletstoppers were angling towards the door and getting chewed up moving 100m in the open by an enemy on the other side of the building.

The right way to move into a building and keep the building between you and an enemy is to create a waypoint on the outside of the building and another inside the building. Then your troops will move straight (roughly) for the waypoint and then swing wide to enter through the door at the last moment and giving less opportunity to the enemy. Most buildings have a rear door too, it helps to make the outside waypoint closer to the door you'd prefer your meatheads to use.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Originally posted by metalbrew:

The right way to move into a building and keep the building between you and an enemy is to create a waypoint on the outside of the building and another inside the building.

This is an interesting statement in that you seem to be applying the term "path-finding" to a game routine that might be more aptly described as "path-directing," a function of your apparent preference for friendly movement taking place solely at the direction the human player(s), rather than the game's AI. Are you interested, at all, in handing over some of these chores to the game, or do you want to manage every last detail of these functions yourself? That's a real question, btw.

PoE

[metalbrew]

Well, I'm interested in winning. You don't win when 9 guys get mowed down needlessly because I didn't understand the right way to emphasize my orders.

I don't want to 'micro' every little thing and many times I won't need to, even while being aware of some of the ways pathfinding can go wrong. However, when I need a specific path to be done with extra care this is one way to get it done.

Sometimes forums and electronic communication don't really convey someone's message, are you giving me crap for micromanaging too closely? I promise you the point I'm making isn't trivial, it's the difference between the squad running down the street (and if they survive) into the building and the squad staying tucked behind the building until popping into view at the last moment before entering the building.

[JaguarUSF]

Which specific movement command are you using? If you are expecting enemy contact, "hunt" is pretty much the order you want to use. Or "fast" if you want them to dash into a building and hope they don't get shot.

[George MC]

Hi

Fighting MOUT actions is an interesting challenge in CMSF - weapons are so damn lethal!

If you want to move when under fire or possibly come under fire use 'ASSAULT' this has your grunts move 'pepperpot' style. One lot stay put as a fire team giving covering fire, the others attack forward and vice versa until they reach the end of the waypoints. Mind this does tire the grunts out pretty quick. Only use 'FAST' and 'QUICK' if you are sure you are not or will not come under fire.

'HUNT' is good as a move to contact type order as Jaguar says.

Cheers fur noo

George Mc

[Andrew H.]

I think metalbrew is right to be concerned, as I've had my troops do the same thing. But I believe - right now, anyway - that this is more of an I-have-to-learn-how-the-new-movement-commands-work issue than a pathfinding issue.

But there certainly does need to be a way to have troops moving behind a building stay relatively close together to have the building screen them from fire.

[metalbrew]

This is not a problem solved by the type of movement chosen. Pick the movement style you prefer, charge a building with a single click, and the troops will choose a path that angles them towards the closest door. As I said earlier, if there's no enemy enfilade on the door your troops will probably be just fine. If the enemy is covering the door you will take heavy losses regardless of the movement order. Switching movement styles only tells your troops to what degree you want them to return fire and find cover if they make contact with the enemy. Moving troops lose against static defenders unless they have support to suppress the defender.

If you use a single click order (with any movement style) to enter a building when you'd prefer your guys to keep the building between them and the enemy, you're going to lose the exchange.