John Malcolm Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I really want to like this game, but stuff like this is making it really difficult. This was the 2nd time in 5 minutes that I'd lost a bunch of guys because of this kind of thing. I suppose 'pathfinding' isn't really the issue. Pathfinding would be placing 1 waypoint way across the map and letting the TacAI find it's own best route there. This is a 'toute following' issue, where I specify the route a unit has to take and the TacAI goes mental. Also, in the same game, I watched another Stryker drive diagonally through the whole length of one of the other barracks buildings (undamaged). I feel I may have to put the game back on the shelf until it's patched to a decent level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkerT Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Hallo John. I believe that the Stryker vehicle has a nasty (as in big) turning radius. At least that is what a quick Google search will tell you (I also believe that one of the articles in Blogfront told us as much). And since it is not tracked it is not able to spin on a coin. I think that one of the ways to help the route following routines or pathfinding routines is by giving realistically followable move orders taking speed into account i.e. quick gives bigger turning radius and fast even more so. Slow should give the tightest radius. Now in my very unscientific and personnal view the orders you have given in the picture above is simply impossible for the vehicle to do, hence the new route chosen by the AI. I am not sying that it is clear that everything is a-ok with pathfinding, but we need to have the Stryker capabilities in mind when discussing this stuff! Anyway, just my two cents. I will try to dig up some Stryker turning radius facts. Let's hope some of the guys in the know beats me to it! All the best Frans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zoidberg Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Frans, The movement is to show the path his infantry took when they dismounted (you see them in the building now, having taken the longer and quite a bit more deadly route) Pretty frustrating to have that happen, definitely something that needs to be looked at. Personally I've had Strykers decide to turn around and scream back down the road they just came from, instead of driving 10m through a clear intersection. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkerT Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Hah ... LoL ... My eyes are playing tricks one me. Man! I read it as the vehicle itself and saw the barracks as a road. To much junk food and to little exercise will do this to ya' ... hot dang! Anyways I just found that the Stryker has a 58 foot turning radius ( Ref.: http://www-tradoc.army.mil/pao/TRADOC_Perspective/TP5.pdf ) i.e. something like 18 meters (17,7 to be exact) if I am not mistaken. Thank you for setting me straight. All the best Frans [ August 12, 2007, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: HawkerT ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Malcolm Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share Posted August 12, 2007 Yip.... the drawn paths show the intended and actual routes taken by the dismounting infantry. The vehicle was not moving at all at that point. The position of the vehicle would have given them some cover from any unexpected surprises from the left... all they had to do was jog round the right side and through a door. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 It's a fair bet that as far as CMSF is concerned that Stryker is 'blocking' the door. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNathan Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 It's particularly annoying when they mill about the front of the building like so many teenage hooligans in front of a 7/11 while getting chopped to pieces by gunfire. "What is that sound?" "Gunfire I suppose..." "What, and this part of town was so nice too." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 And since it is not tracked it is not able to spin on a coin. strykers, BRDM´s and BTR´s can rotate on point, but just if the AI needs it, you cant order that by yourself. you see it when they are in urban terrain and are lost in the streets, abandoming their ploted waypathes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNathan Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma: It's a fair bet that as far as CMSF is concerned that Stryker is 'blocking' the door. The behavior is entirely random though. I remember placing a stryker alongside the Airforce HQ building in campaign mission 2 and having the soldiers pile into the building fairly quickly, though still far too slow to be realistic. In other instances I've seen the exact same thing, some situations as bad as Malcom's situation, or soldiers moving to the roof, three quarters of them getting shot up, and the survivors moving to the location I originally set. Also, I'm seeing formations take damn near 90% casualties without so much as a panic. One would think if three quarters of your squad was just rapidly gunned down, the survivors would hunker down somewhere nice and safe for a while, particularly while the bullets are phasing themselves through multiple walls and wizzing around them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 It seems totally random which door do they use. They should stop going out after first of them goes down and seek for cover and firing positions in order to return fire. This is a rethorical question. After seeing CMx1 games could anyone have believed if they were told that the new CM-series game does not a decent have morale effect simulation, troops cannot find their way in urban areas, stone walls are mostly just ornaments, you cannot adjust arty fire and quick battles do not work? They would have laughed and told that you are a biggest liar of all time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol_mouse Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 As Steve has already noted a couple of times in other threads, the long and the short of it is that CMSF wasn't quite finished when it was sent out the door. Battlefront signed a contract almost a year before shipping specifying a ship date, things ran long, they got as many extensions as the contract permitted, and then they had to put the game on CDs and ship it. The Battlefront crew is working overtime to patch and improve the game. Tool tips, editable paths, and many bug fixes are apparently on their way. While Battlefront's motto of "We'll ship it when it's ready" may have slipped up a bit this time, you do have the option of waiting a few months and then "play it when it's ready". True, this isn't ideal. They know that, we know that. But this game has the soul of CM, and many tremendous improvements. It has great promise. I, for one, am withholding judgment for now, and will judge it some months from now when it's done! ol-mouse 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 As Steve has already noted a couple of times in other threads, the long and the short of it is that CMSF wasn't quite finished when it was sent out the door. Battlefront signed a contract almost a year before shipping specifying a ship date, things ran long, they got as many extensions as the contract permitted, and then they had to put the game on CDs and ship it. iteressting, i never saw that posted in such a "compact" and "clear" form. that explains quiet a bit. bad luck i guess, lets sit it out and wait 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 deleted per user request 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 For moving around in 'hot' areas, 'Move' produces better results for me than the, e.g. 'Quick', which leads to trouble most of the time in built-up areas! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 That picture shows the worst side of the current path finding algorithm. Vehicles block visually open routes. This can be maddening, and it is definitely a bug. An easy workaround for this is to drive the Stryker 10m forward, this way it will also offer cover for your moving troops. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I once had a Stryker on the right beneath house. I ordered him to move 100m forward to move over a street crossing. Before he did so, he first drove around the house once. Well, I'm not really pissed about all the bugs in CMSF. Yes, I think it was realesed much to early, but I keep the reasons in mind. I see it this way: so many people asked to be part of the beta team. BF.C made just a democratic decission: now we are all in the beta team, and we are all a little bit part of the CM development process. Feels great, doesn't it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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