First time play with new engine - few comments

[Cirrus]

Now I've managed to start playing new CM. It's interesting game, but it didn't feel like home.

I only play turn based, so my comments are only from it.

1) Where is LOS-tool?

My default tool has gone away. With low end graphics cards with poor details it's hard to see terrain types etc. I really need this back.

2) What happened to firing lines?

Why in earth there are no more firing lines. You can get information who shot who out from videos if you work enough, but why in the earth it is not showing anymore on map screen?

3) Encylopedia.

These types of games most definetely need a decent encylopedia accessible within the game. It is part of the fun to discover and learn about equipement while playing. Information given out of equipement is too poor.

4. Terrain.

This is hard to explain, but for me it's lot more difficult to get grip of the terrain and the height differences. Absence of LOS-tool makes this even harder.

These are the few first toughts about the game. Well any case I will be playing it...

[Cpl Steiner]

Cirrus,

I agree with all your points. If you look at what has been added to CM:SF in patches over the previous months, a lot of it has been putting back things from CMx1 that were removed. If that's the case, why remove them in the first place?

It seems to me that BFC are discovering that CMx1 was an even more well designed game than even they had realised, and leaving out things that seemed to be superfluous or redundant in CMx1 has only highlighted why they were good features.

For instance, Steve has said that the LOS tool in unnecessary because the Target line does the same thing. That's fine if the unit is armed, but recon Humvees aren't and their whole purpose in life is to scout out enemy positions. A LOS tool is therefore a must for such units.

Similarly, Steve said that the unit info screen we used to be able to display for a unit was clutter for the UI and information overload. Well I'm sorry Steve, but I beg to differ. It was always interesting being able to review the capabilities of a unit in this way, and the inclusion of min./max. range info for support weapons in the latest patch only goes to show that it should have been left in.

I could go on but we all know that CMx1 was a more feature-rich game than CM:SF currently is, even after the latest patch, and that's disregarding even the extra units we got to play with in CMx1. It seems to me that when BFC decided to throw away the old engine and start from scratch, they threw the baby out with the bathwater.

Hopefully CM:SF will eventually be just as enjoyable as CMx1 was but it still has a long way to go IMHO.

[thewood]

While I agree with the thoughts on why these got removed, I would hesitate to call CM1 more feature rich than CMSF. CM1 was broader, had a better launch, and needed only a little tweaking to play out of the box, but CMSF brings a lot to the table. Unfortunately, much of its under the hood, or overshadowed by a few key bugs. I too think CM1 is a better overall game, but since 1.06, I can start to see what BFC was trying to do. There are a lot of thngs in CMSF that I would have killed to get into CM1.

But with that said, I still don't understand the LOS tool removal as a design decision, especially as CMSF is still not completely "what you see is what you get.

[M1A1TC]

Well, they finally put the command menu back in, so maybe the LOS tool will make it back in the game eventually

What Id like to see is a selectable (on/off) graphical representation ( a circle) around each unit that shows its weapon's range and areas out of LOS/LOF

How about Show All waypoints/targeting lines? That was very useful

[ February 11, 2008, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: M1A1TankCommander ]

[Zatoichi]

Show all waypoints is already in - 'Alt P' will do that (introduced in 1.03). But I also miss the firing lines, although now units can fire on different enemies at once, it may be a bit harder to implement.

As this is a wishlist of sorts, I'd like to see moveable waypoints brought back at BFC's earliest convenience!

[M1A1TC]

Thanks, I didnt even noticed that it was back in

[MikeyD]

At what height do you tend to play? Those complaints most often come from the 'Eye of God' players who hover far over the battlefield. When you're playing down to level 1 the stuff out of LOS usually is out of LOS. As for terrain, At level 1 you can count the individual pebbles in the road. i spend a LOT of time down t level 1

About Encyclopedia, as Steve once said (I think it was Steve) they can't tell you anything about the game's weapons systems that Googling wouldn't supply 10 times as much info with one click of a button. Encyclopedias as soooo 'last century'.

[thewood]

I thought in stuff like brush and foliage, it still was some kind of % LOS degradation.

[Drusus]

You have a great LOS tool in the game. Put waypoint somewhere on the map, select that way point and use target command

[thewood]

Originally posted by Drusus:

You have a great LOS tool in the game. Put waypoint somewhere on the map, select that way point and use target command

I think the complaint is that some recon units don't have a weapon and can't use target. But I had never thought of your suggestion before. Using waypoints is a good idea.

[Cirrus]

My play style consist about 50% from upper view and 50% from level 1 view. I scout the situation from bird view and use tools to identify terrain I am planning to use. Then when I give any move orders I switch to level 1 view to possibly identify good positions to move and to get a idea what route I should possibly take. LOS tool was very important tool for me to identify the terrain components, and possible trenches, holes etc in them.

Target command serves as poor mans LOS-tool. It doesn't explain anything about the terrain nor the height.

I do not like to switch to google or to manual to gain some kind of basic idea of units capabilites. (Task switching with this game is pain in the ass btw) I think it even strengthens my point if the information is readily available. Then it shouldn't even be a major task to include some of that information inside the game itself. In the days of internet I still can appreciate good collection of information in one single place relevant to situation you are facing (Game encyclopedia)

[Paper Tiger]

One of the reasons I spend so much time browsing these forums is that, occassionally, I find some piece of information that's gold. Thanks for sharing that tip with us Drusus.