Cpl Steiner Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hi, Did anybody see "Commando: On the Front Line" last night (UK Television). For those who didn't, I found it very interesting from a CM:SF point of view, as it showed a company-sized assault by British Royal Marines against a Taliban-held hill position in Afghanistan with Apache gunship support. The pace was MUCH slower than in CM:SF. To give you an idea of how much slower, the marines commenced the operation before dawn under cover of darkness and concluded the operation around 11:00 am. In that time they killed or wounded about 20 Taliban and took a single casualty themselves, a marine who had his wrist shattered by an AK bullet. The terrain was very open and when the marines were under fire they had to just hug the ground for cover. At one point you actually saw the dirt kicked up by a Taliban round that hit the ground right next to the cameraman. You could also hear the sound of rounds going over the heads of the troops, which the marines referred to as "lead wasps". The battle seemed to revolve around control of a number of hills with ruins on the top, with both sides shifting position to try to get firing arcs onto the enemy from high ground. The marines would cautiously approach, get spotted, withdraw under fire, circle around, and approach from another angle. Once they did manage to gain the heights they formed a firing line to suppress the enemy to allow more marines to advance on the enemy position. Towards the end of the operation, having identified lots of Taliban firing positions, the Apache's were called in to strafe the enemy. In the end, they took the objective, but by this time the enemy had melted away, taking their dead and wounded with them. It really was a great program and a real insight into how the military conduct real world operations at the company scale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Sounds interesting. Unfortunatey, their website only allows UK users to download the videos. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Originally posted by molotov_billy: Sounds interesting. Unfortunatey, their website only allows UK users to download the videos. molotov_billy, Which website did you try? Here is one where I managed to watch the video again if it is any help. Click on the link for "Catch Up Video: Mon 29 Oct - 10:00pm". Commando: On the Front Line Once the video is playing you can click "detach video" to get a full-screen picture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Steiner, yes that's the one. This is the message I get when I try to play one of the videos: "Sorry, videos can only be viewed if you are in the UK." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwobot Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I have seen some episodes on liveleak recently in the Afghanistan section. The show reminds me of The Paras [ October 30, 2007, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: zwobot ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 molotov_billy, Sorry you can't watch episode. I thought maybe I could just save it to disc and post it online but I've just tried and it won't let me do it. It looks like it has to be streamed from the site. Hopefully it will appear on You Tube or something in the near future. [Edit] I've just checked Liveleak and several earlier episodes are on that site, including last week's in which the marines go on a patrol and have a few contacts but nothing major compared to the latest episode. I reckon the latest one will be up there pretty soon though, so keep checking if you want to see it. [ October 30, 2007, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Steiner ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afreu Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Why would the Taliban take their dead with them? They're followed by a superior enemy with better weapons and air support. It makes no sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwobot Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Why does it make no sense to take dead with someone? The "West" does it too, don't they? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Originally posted by afreu: Why would the Taliban take their dead with them? They're followed by a superior enemy with better weapons and air support. It makes no sense. Just because they have a totally different belief structure to us doesn't make them animals. Human beings are the same the world over, no matter what their beliefs. Fallen comrades matter! Furthermore, I got the impression that the Royal Marines have a great respect for the Taliban as fighters. They may cut people's heads off and make kids into suicide bombers but they are also brave and have a good grasp of tactics. Who was it who said, never underestimate your enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taki Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Any way to watch that Video? Sounds intresting. But the Site doesnt work for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jens198 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Originally posted by Taki: Any way to watch that Video? Sounds intresting. But the Site doesnt work for me. Might take a look here ... link 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Excellent series this. However SF does not model the hours of waiting and manouvering into firing positions, and thank god for that. Wouldnt make for a good game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handihoc Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Will watch it tomorrow. Sounds very interesting. But yes, agreeing with GSX, realworld combat situations like that one can't be wholly effectively modelled in a game or simulation like SF - imagine what this forum, plus reviews, would be like if a scenario required several hours of manouevring, retreating, re-positioning etc. I quite like the idea of the enemy melting away, though, as opposed to simply surrendering. I had that once in an online CC battle (in Case's Ladder, if anyone remembers) where my opponent late one evening, who was losing and not at all happy about it, went rather quiet. After about an hour of nothing really happening, and several unanswered requests from me to respond, I realised the bastard had simply gone off to bed without bothering to tell me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Originally posted by afreu: Why would the Taliban take their dead with them? They're followed by a superior enemy with better weapons and air support. It makes no sense. Religious reasons in dealing with with burials, etc? Maybe someone can fill us in, I know next to nothing about Islam. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Originally posted by Cpl Steiner: molotov_billy, Sorry you can't watch episode. I thought maybe I could just save it to disc and post it online but I've just tried and it won't let me do it. It looks like it has to be streamed from the site. Hopefully it will appear on You Tube or something in the near future. [Edit] I've just checked Liveleak and several earlier episodes are on that site, including last week's in which the marines go on a patrol and have a few contacts but nothing major compared to the latest episode. I reckon the latest one will be up there pretty soon though, so keep checking if you want to see it. Thanks for the heads up! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwobot Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 It is up on liveleak Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 You can get download it in its entirety here as well. [ October 31, 2007, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Sivodsi ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 zwobot, Sivodsi, Yep, that's the episode I was referring to (7th of 8: "Dawn Assault"). Well worth a watch for anyone thinking of designing an Afghanistan scenario. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwobot Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 It is indeed very interesting. Even in this deliberate attack it seemed as if there was 80% or so boredom with no "real" action and maybe 20% actual fighting. Not to forget the extensive planning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Interesting vids, thanks for posting! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT North Dakota Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Originally posted by Cpl Steiner: The marines would cautiously approach, get spotted, withdraw under fire, circle around, and approach from another angle. Once they did manage to gain the heights they formed a firing line to suppress the enemy to allow more marines to advance on the enemy position. Towards the end of the operation, having identified lots of Taliban firing positions, the Apache's were called in to strafe the enemy. In the end, they took the objective, Is there any other way for a dismounted infantry company to operate? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Given the two hour time constriants, can CMSF effectivly replicate this action? I mean there was much more maneuver than firing, where as CMSF seems to be the opposite due to the short time limits imposed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Guy Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Islamic Burial Muslims are urged to bury their dead quickly and it has become traditional to bury the deceased within 24 hours. 1. The corpse is washed (bathed) to physically cleanse the corpse 2. The corpse is wrapped in a simple plain cloth. The main factor in this step is to respectfully wrap the corpse in a cloth so that its private parts are not visible to others 3. The Muslims of the community gather to offer their collective prayers for the forgiveness of the dead. 4. Only men are allowed to attend the actual graveside service. The grave itself should be aligned on a northeast to southwest axis, facing Mecca. The wrapped body is placed directly into the ground, without any kind of casket. *Taken from a variety of sources (including my own interpretation of what I have found researching islamic practices) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Originally posted by Canada Guy: 2. The corpse is wrapped in a simple plain cloth. The main factor in this step is to respectfully wrap the corpse in a cloth so that its private parts are not visible to othersExcept that if the deceased is a martyr they are supposed to be buried in the clothes they died in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 20 killed was just an approximation. The words were "maybe up to 20 were killed today". Usually the KIA approximations are way bigger than the reality, and it is reasonable to believe that that is the case here, too. The 2h time limit isn't that bad of a problem when simulating this type of action. Cover is. And of course the LOS/LOF issues. I just tried and I could kill a whole squad of enemy infantry _covering_ in a trench with just one MG section in couple of minutes. The position should have given perfect cover for the defenders, so that no matter how long I fire they wouldn't die! In CMSF casualties are really common for this reason. Also, withdrawing from a bad position is really, really hard. Anyhow I hope BFC is working on these problems. Actually I am quite sure that the resent silence is because they are thinking of / implementing something that they don't want to announce before they know it is going to work. Enough off topic for one post, so I just want to add that the videos were really interesting. Thanks for the links! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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