rammer4250 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Since the terrain is somewhat abstracted to 8m how about marking each center of each 8m with a dot which can be turned on/off. That way we have an idea of where the LOS is pointing at so we can have vehicles/squads not get shopt up when we think they are behind cover. Sort of like squad leader where line of sight was always measured to the center of the hex. Rammer guys, I am editing this post because I think I am totally wrong on all counts. I have no idea what the hell is going on. All my assumptions have been proved wrong so sorry for the headaches. Only BFC knows! [ August 16, 2007, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: rammer4250 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I like that - kind of a 3D grid overlay made up of dots hovering 4 metres above the ground? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammer4250 Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 I was just thinking from watching turns play back in wego that the squad was not spotted until the center of that squad position was in LOS(therfore not fired upon until the center of squad was in LOS). I think the dot marking would help out tremendously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I don't get it. In some post Steve said that if a vehicle shows part of the hulk through a wall it will be seen, and if not no (well, he didn't say that exactly but along these lines), and then it could be shoot or not. Everytime one reads soemthing about LOS/LOF mroe confussion is added to the matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Dick Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 You know, instead of dots, we should use interconnected 8meter spaces. And, so that units can properly attack and support each other, we should make the spaces hexagons. Then the spaces would let you know exactly where your unit is at that time. But then if they moved, it would be confusing while they occupied partial hexagons. Wouldn't it be better if we only displayed them in a static position ? Maybe we could pause the action, or take turns moving.... something cool like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 How about reabstracting the infantry? Still 1:1 graphicaly but a base would tell you where the center of the squad sight and firepower is. The base would jump from one action spot to another, yet the soldiers will follow smoothly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammer4250 Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 I just did another experiment and I noticed that the LOS/LOF is indeed measured from the center of that grid square. I used the last training scenario. When I parked behing the first(middle building) I noticed that when the enemy HQ unit in the last left building started to shoot at a squad that was crossing the street to the leftmost front building the Grenade launcher stryker started to fire at the enemy HQ.seemingly through 3 buildings. I wanted to see where the center of the grid that the Stryker was in (so using the target tool) I clicked close to the Stryker and sure enough the center of that grid was towards the center of the road and in LOS of the enemy HQ squad building. I bet the reason for seemingly being able to be shot through walls is because of this center (dot) thing. I bet the center of that grid is on the side of the wall that the enemy has a line of sight to when the squad is in that grid space. Someone care to do a little experiment with this? [ August 16, 2007, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: rammer4250 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I have a headache 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis50 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 lol ...me too. Please fix or somfink. Regards, Gunz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammer4250 Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 I may be just plain wrong here but... I just had another revelation. This is concening the trench debate whether trenches are offering any protection. If this center dot thing is correct then if the center dot position is at ground level and not say 8m under ground level then LOS/LOF is being measured from that ground level center dot and therefore any units in the trench are defacto at ground level therefore being able to be seen/shot at. How are the building levels being depicted? Probably by a 3D grid system whereby the center dot (as far as height goes) is at the center of each level. So to fix the trench have a negative grid level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I can see more and more need for my suggested "Designer's Notes" all the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Originally posted by thewood: I have a headache As someone said in other thread: Head Exploding 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Maybe someone should start a thread called "Player's Design Notes" or somefink, and when people figure out how stuff actually works, they can post it there for everyone to read. Treeburst155 had a really ugly terrain mod back in the day that was brilliant. It showed the actual 2 (two) metre grid that all combat was based on. Gave one a real edge in giving movement orders and stuff. That's the kind of thing that could go into such a thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 What a mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Originally posted by rammer4250: I may be just plain wrong here but... I just had another revelation. This is concening the trench debate whether trenches are offering any protection. If this center dot thing is correct then if the center dot position is at ground level and not say 8m under ground level then LOS/LOF is being measured from that ground level center dot and therefore any units in the trench are defacto at ground level therefore being able to be seen/shot at. How are the building levels being depicted? Probably by a 3D grid system whereby the center dot (as far as height goes) is at the center of each level. So to fix the trench have a negative grid level. Vertically the grid doesn't work in 8m scale, just in one "hight" (first level ina building = 1 high, second = 2 hight; don't know how much is it in meters). The trench is one level too I think, and it DOES provide cover, test it, it could give more probably but it does give cover actually. All thsi rather confusing, gonna do some testing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 The center dot thing begs the question of how individual soldiers decide where to be within the 8m. If the center of a squad is behind a ridge, but an outlying soldier is at the top, should the enemy be able to engage just the one soldier? Maybe its a stupid question, but I am a little confused. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis50 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Originally posted by Abbott: What a mess. I guess I'm just a messy kind of guy ...cause I kinda like this mess, or maybe it's because i'm one of the unwashed ..not sure what it is but charles and his neutrionic juices has me hooked. Regards, Gunz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Originally posted by GunzAbeam: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Abbott: What a mess. I guess I'm just a messy kind of guy ...cause I kinda like this mess, or maybe it's because i'm one of the unwashed ..not sure what it is but charles and his neutrionic juices has me hooked. Regards, Gunz </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I wonder if it'd be feasible to have variable LOS grid so building/object/terrain edges and crests/dips would have larger concentration of "action points".. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfc Driscole James E Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Since the terrain and LOS/LOF are going to be abstracted, then it would be nice to have some player and scenario designer abstracted tools. Like a random point to random point LOS tool. Not realistic of course but we can't look at the terrain and tell whats what for LOS. For scenario designers the 8x8 action point grid as an option so they can lay out walls and buildings with the effect on LOS made clearer to them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammer4250 Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 Thewood Basically from what I have seen as long as the center of the squad is not in LOS neither of the squad members will be either no matter where they are depicted. In my little experiment there were a couple of squad members ahead of the center and in line of sight of the enemy. They were not engaged until the center position was in LOS. Then they were gunned down.Therefore the placement of the individual soldiers does not matter and therefore you see anomalies such as shooting through buildings and the ground. I believe that the individual soldiers fire (bullets,203 launches) as long as the center has line of sight to the target. Only the center position is important just as in squad leader center hex to center hex. So suppose the center of the squad is behind a building and some squad members appear to be in the open. It doesn't matter until the center dot is in the open (abstraction). Another example: suppose a squad is behind a wall but the center of the 8m grid is on the enemy side of the wall. Squad is visible therefore shot at (appearing to be engaged through the wall). At least this is what I am seeing; could be wrong though. I am not the programmer so therfor I don't know how line of sight/fire is conducted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis50 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Originally posted by Abbott: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GunzAbeam: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Abbott: What a mess. I guess I'm just a messy kind of guy ...cause I kinda like this mess, or maybe it's because i'm one of the unwashed ..not sure what it is but charles and his neutrionic juices has me hooked. Regards, Gunz </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Originally posted by GunzAbeam: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Abbott: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GunzAbeam: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Abbott: What a mess. I guess I'm just a messy kind of guy ...cause I kinda like this mess, or maybe it's because i'm one of the unwashed ..not sure what it is but charles and his neutrionic juices has me hooked. Regards, Gunz </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Abbott, What thread was that list in? About half of that stuff is wrong or no longer true. The rest of it is a mix of opinion so no problem there. You know the saying... opinions are like areseholes, everybody has one Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tc237 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: What thread was that list in?The "Ouch, Tom Chick.." thread. Page 10. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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