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Cavalry Charge at Apache Pass Now at CMMODS


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Just tried both sides. I liked it. Especially considering it being impossible to design a scenario that is equally as challanging and fun from both sides vs the limited responsiveness of the AI.

My advice is to give the attacker more short movement orders for all plans, just to keep him from parking his Bradleys in the same spot for 15 mins (which make them very inviting arty targets - i took one out and immobilized one with my 82mm mortars). And to keep the defender on his toes and add a bit more of a dynamic feeling to the battle. This, of course, at the risk of the AI doing something incredibly stupid, like exposing his six at point blank range to known RPG positions.

Anyway, thanks.

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Originally posted by stikkypixie:

Thanks Mark, you're becoming one of the most prolific designers out there.

I have a little request for you, could you make a blue on blue scenario or recommend me one? It seems that there aren't many of those around.

Thanks...I've got an unpublished Blue on Blue that RhurRiver and I played as PBEM...called Twilight Zone...Yeah...based on the TV show...It's very small, rough and unfinished...Perhaps I'll do some re-working on it. Take a look at CMMODs for any all Blue...I can't recall one off the top of my head.
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Originally posted by LarsS:

Just tried both sides. I liked it. Especially considering it being impossible to design a scenario that is equally as challanging and fun from both sides vs the limited responsiveness of the AI.

Glad you enjoyed it. Please keep in mind that there are 5 different plans for each side. What Blue did the first time...how they did it, when they did it is subject to change. It is also subject to the terrain... smile.gif

Regarding your comment about the impossibility of equally challenging and the responsiveness of the AI...I just simply disagree. All games have limitations of some kind or another. Scen designers like to push those limits...whatever they are...Of the Scen editors I am most familiar I like this one Best. I'm sure there is more that can...and WILL be done with the editor in future Modules, but for now I'm happy to have this fine tool to create with.

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I'm really looking forward to playing this, Mark, because, as you know, I'm a fan of your work in CMSF scenario design and used a scenario of yours to essentially teach myself the game.

The work that goes into making multiple plans per side is a big deal and much appreciated. I agree with you that AI limitations can be overcome (or, more accurately, disguised) with what I call pseudo-randomization, i.e. multiple battle plans combined with detailed orders. It's not about making the AI genuinely intelligent -- AI is years away from that -- as much as it's about being so attentive to detail in the design and orders input that the AI appears convincingly intelligent. The greatest tribute to any mission designer is work that all but convinces the player that the AI is using initiative. I base these musings on my deep experience in the Steel Beasts mission editor, which is a marvel, and uses triggers, randomization and conditions to simulate initiative in AI actions when initiative cannot yet be coded into AI. Just like in CMSF or any good tactical mission design editor, however, the quality of the output is directly proportionate to the quality of the input and the use of multiple battle plans is key to a less linear experience in playing the mission.

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MarkEzra,

I played it and it kicks ass. Thanks. Can't wait for your next project.

RT, Veteran. I did pretty well, took a lot of rpg hits, but luckily only 2 vehicles immobilized. And that was after a mad dash through an artillery barrage. Red surrendered as I made my final thrust into the edge of town.

This mission was well scripted and realistic. It was really fun. smile.gif

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Okay, about six minutes in, command vehicle immobilized but I've pushed through the arty barrage and sent the two forward dug-in RPG teams to frolic with 72 virgins.

The village is in LOS but I know I'm facing several more entrenched defences so I've dialed in the arty but (this must be a r/l cav commander's decision) should I sit and wait for the barrage to take effect, or push forward? Well, no point sending my troop into my own arty so I think the question answers itself. It is a speed versus security dilemma, however, as sitting still makes me a target for red arty and was that a spotting round? Oh dear...

Great mission.

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Minor defeat (Blue, Veteran), but not by the Syrians, by the clock. And boy, do I hate being defeated by the clock!

I also was upset that I did not get points for a "victory area" that I cleared completely, but did not occupy at the end.

Best regards,

Thomm

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Good! and just what part of Occupy didn't you understand?... ;) Also keep in mind The blue player victory locations are only the three in town or main road while Red has four to hold. The scen CO (you)has been told to move fast and not get stuck in the pass. But don't feel so "Blue", since there are 5 different Plans for both sides... better luck next time...

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Here is my latest AAR...not that I'm boasting or anything. Bear in mind it's my fifth try, on Veteran, RT.

They key seems to be suppression. You have to bring all the pain the Bradleys can inflict on Red dug-in defenses while pounding the crap out of them with heavy anti-personnel mortar fire. Move forward cautiously but with an eye on the clock and pop smoke and reverse as soon as RPGs are spotted by individual units. Do not go mano-a-mano with RPGs once spotted but note the location of the AT weapon and suppress it before moving forward and getting ready to target any unit that survives. I've lost up to three vehicles in this scenario by assuming that a Bradley can outgun (or at least out-react) a dug-in soldier with an RPG. I'd love to know if it's "gamey" or real-world (Mark?) but the only way I can gain a Total Victory as Blue and remain within the 20% casualty rate is not to set target arcs but to use "Area Target" and arty to suppress the crap out of all trench occupants and then have the reinforcements move through in cautious bounds.

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Originally posted by MarkEzra:

Good! and just what part of Occupy didn't you understand?... ;) Also keep in mind The blue player victory locations are only the three in town or main road while Red has four to hold.

A bit O/T, but I wish there was a hot key that turned off the VL colours. The map would gain in visual appeal. (Of course, this may already exist, AFAIK, lol)
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Originally posted by Bahger:

Here is my latest AAR...not that I'm boasting or anything. Bear in mind it's my fifth try, on Veteran, RT.

They key seems to be suppression. You have to bring all the pain the Bradleys can inflict on Red dug-in defenses while pounding the crap out of them with heavy anti-personnel mortar fire. Move forward cautiously but with an eye on the clock and pop smoke and reverse as soon as RPGs are spotted by individual units. Do not go mano-a-mano with RPGs once spotted but note the location of the AT weapon and suppress it before moving forward and getting ready to target any unit that survives. I've lost up to three vehicles in this scenario by assuming that a Bradley can outgun (or at least out-react) a dug-in soldier with an RPG. I'd love to know if it's "gamey" or real-world (Mark?) but the only way I can gain a Total Victory as Blue and remain within the 20% casualty rate is not to set target arcs but to use "Area Target" and arty to suppress the crap out of all trench occupants and then have the reinforcements move through in cautious bounds.

That's using the tools at hand! You as CO have a job to do. If you are the kind of CO I'd fight for you'll get that job done with an eye on force preservation....and the scen penalizes those who don't.

Now I have a question:

Has anyone noticed that the tactical map becomes the setup position when you start the scen? If so was that enjoyable? Movielike? Totally so what?

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Originally posted by stikkypixie:

Man this is a tough one!

Yeah, between the time limit and the requirement for force preservation, it sometimes feels like being on the wrong end of Patton's famous dictum to "hold 'em by the nose then kick 'em in the ass". Still, that's what makes it good, and my AAR posted in this thread proves that a very average player can beat it.

Now I have a question:

Has anyone noticed that the tactical map becomes the setup position when you start the scen? If so was that enjoyable? Movielike? Totally so what?

I like it but what I like most about it is seeing the mission goals clearly laid out in this screen shot. Ideally, I'd prefer a tactical map with those mission goals overlaid, as I'm in the movie business and do not need to be given cinematic experiences when I'm pretending to be a dust-caked LT fresh out of West Point trying not to get his guys killed. You could, however, use FRAPS to make a great "trailer" for the mission, upload it to YouTube with a suitable soundtrack (oh please, no more friggin metal) and put the link in the thread here announcing the scenario. Now that would be cinematic.

[ March 11, 2008, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Bahger ]

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I especially like this one as Syrians. Managing to hold on to the front VL is quite a challange.

And as for "gamey" tactics, I feel no shame in hosing suspected enemy positions (trenches) with 25 mm fie. But doing it and moving the screen to the targeted location and listening for screams, etc is where I draw the line.

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It's a good tough fight from the blue side for sure ... but would any US Company move through a defile like that without close air (helicopter, UAV) support?

Just a thought.

I am not being negative on a superior scenario - just fostering conversation.

This would be an interesting scenario for folks to edit on their own to layer in just the right force to pass the defile with little to no losses for blue. Could be instructive.

Kevin

[ March 11, 2008, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Kinscherff ]

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Hey Mark!

Great scenario! I haven't got much time lately, so this one was perfect.

Just played it as Red.

I don't usually like playing the Red side but I decided to give it a go on this one.

It was good fun.

Total Victory but a lot of casualties(20 KIA!). But for Red I think it was acceptable.

I would play it again but this time placing the forces in a more favorable ambush position. I could have done better if I had done that I guess. You can't really reposition your troops too much once the action starts.

I also did not use the mortars the way I should have. I guess concentrate then on the pass objetive towards the end to kill the last wave of Blue.

Anyway, loads of fun.

Thanks.

-

[ March 11, 2008, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

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