Scipio Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I wonder how rarity in QB purchase will be handled in CM2x (assuming that QBs are still possible, but without random maps). What I didn't liked so much on the old system is that generally all equipment of the timeframe is available, just with higher or lower purchase costs. My view is, that some or even many equipment in reality is just unavailable for different reasons. How common this equipment is/was (expressed by purchase points) is only part of it. Sorry if I can't explain it so good - think of it like this: You have 10 Mark-X in the area, but not a single Mark-Y, even if the Mark-Y is the most used tank in the operation... The USA has (simply said) no or few supply problems, while Syria with a much lower industrial output and military funds surely has. In CM1x I can purchase dozends of Panthers in a larger QB, while in reality the Germans had in late war only some hundredt tanks of all types - that were really ready to combat - available on all frontlines together. (If I believe the stats I once read somewhere). Makes this any sense? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 The US may have more money/supplies etc, but the Syrians would have a shorter logistics train. I have to say that I'll be most upset if I can't deploy more of any particular AFV than exist in the world. The only restriction, in my mind, should be whether it's in the game or points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Rarity came into play with the other CM games because of the quick turnover in designs during the course of the war. StuG F/8 would become progressively more rare after G model production ramped-up. I can't imagine rarity like that coming into play during CMSF timespan... unless the war starts out with IEDs rare and tanks common and within a days it shifts to IEDs common/tanks rare. Actually, for the campaign that sounds like a pretty decent idea! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Mikey is onto something there. Well, at least he is onto the same line of thought we are on CM:SF takes place over a space of 2-6 weeks of combat. The only things we are including are items that make sense for that context. Sure, some things would be more common than others... but not by much. The US side, for example, would have zero difference between any of its units. For the Syrians, sure some AT missiles are more common than others, some tanks more than others, etc. But basically they would all be encountered and perhaps in numbers contrary to the total inventory. For example... If you have a battle between a Syrian Special Forces unit and a US Stryker Rifle Company the TO&E is pretty much set for both. The Syrian guys would have the best ATGMs available, not the worst. The Stryker dudes would have everything that a Stryker Rifle Company has. You should not expect to see Stryker Infantry in Bradleys, for example. This has nothing to do with rarity of the system, rather who should have what based on who is who. That's a big difference between CM:SF and previous CM games. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: This has nothing to do with rarity of the system, rather who should have what based on who is who. That's a big difference between CM:SF and previous CM games. Steve I'm a Finn, so what do I get? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 A pointed stick, a flask of some strong alcohol, and someone to point you in the direction of the frontlines Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by MikeyD: I can't imagine rarity like that coming into play during CMSF timespan... unless the war starts out with IEDs rare and tanks common and within a days it shifts to IEDs common/tanks rare. Actually, for the campaign that sounds like a pretty decent idea! Yes, that's basically what I meant. You can select from the equipment that is currently available in the area, but this can change from one day to another, or in CM1x terms, it is a mix between the unit purchase by the player and random purchase by the game engine. The player can make his unit selection (without the CM1x rarity system), but the available TO&E is randomly set by the game engine. I guess this is more realistic than to believe that all unit types are all the time available in all areas of the theatre. And of course, it could be set as option in the QB setup... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 "You should not expect to see Stryker Infantry in Bradleys, for example." Ah! We've been so busy discussing different types of Syrian units that I had totally forgot about the differences between Stryker Brigade infantry and regular mechanized infantry... um... whatever those differences are. More likely to see M16s? Less funky looking uniforms? Or were you commenting on the rarity of Bradleys in the game, not on differences in U.S. infantry units? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Originally posted by Sergei: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com: This has nothing to do with rarity of the system, rather who should have what based on who is who. That's a big difference between CM:SF and previous CM games. Steve I'm a Finn, so what do I get? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 MikeyD, The difference between Stryker and Mech Infantry is smaller now than it was a few years ago. From a soldier standpoint they are pretty much outfitted with the same equipment. The differences are in vehicles and support equipment. And those differences are pretty straight forward. Oh, and of course the organization is quite different, but that doesn't have anything directly to do with what equipment they get. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 Question, what's the big difference between the US Army and the USMC? Is the equipment really that different. I just ask, since USMA will possibly be the first add-on to CM:SF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dook Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 The main equipment differences would be the addition of Light Armored Vehicles (LAVs), Assault Amphibian Vehicles (AAVs), and different aircraft (Cobra attack helos and Harrier jets). The squad structure is also substantially different - 13 man squads divisible into 3 teams compared to the 9 man squads divisible into 2 teams for Stryker brigades. Could make for some very interesting Blue-on-Blue play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 There's quite a few differences. In addition to the above stuff, our primary weapon is the M16A4 with a RCO giving theoretically a longer engagement range. We also have the SMAW at comapany level and 6 shot grenade launchers are being fielded. We use TOW armed HMMWVs instead of the Stryker TOW carrier. Actually we use the HMMWV for all of our heavy weapons. We use MK-23/MK-25 7 ton trucks instead of the new thing the Army has. We don't have any 120mm mortars or MLRS systems, though HIMARS will add MLRS capability very soon. There is a 120mm system in the works called EFSS but I don't see it being fielded very soon. Also it's very common for a platoon of M1s from the division tank battalion to be attached to every battalion, along with a platoon of AAVs. We also use a considerable number of F-18s for CAS. More than the Harrier IIRC. [ October 16, 2006, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: offtaskagain ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Offtaskagain... sheesh... like you REALLY know what you're talking about Dook and Offtaskagain are both correct, of course. There are a lot of differences. The squad makeup is, IMHO, the heart of the differences between the two from a game standpoint. The rest of the stuff is minor compared to that one difference. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Another question, will CM:SF have a rarity system? As I have written above, it looks to me a little bit unrealistic that everything is always everywhere available. Maybe I'm wrong with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 What's another phrase besides rarity... um... Availability! Yeh, that would be more appropriate for this game. Weather conditions could limit fixed & rotary wing aircraft availability. The artillery battery or the tanks could be busy supporting some other units in the area. High winds or rain might limit use of some long range missile systems (is TOW rated to fire through crosswinds much over seven mph?). Your unit's Stryker might have got a flat tire a couple miles back. Conditions could steadily chip away at what's available until all that remains is your dismounted infantry and light mortars to carry the day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 No, no Rarity system at all for CM:SF. As stated above, it isn't necessary. For WWII we will likely introduce some sort of system. MikeyD, we are leaving this stuff up to the Scenario Designer. Weather conditions and what not might reduce the effectiveness of something that is chosen for a battle, but the game won't decide to boot something out that the scenario designer specified should be there. The only (sorta) exception is for simulated anit-air and counter battery fire. What I mean by that is the stuff will be there, 100%, but you might not be able to use it because you had bad luck. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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