Enter the Entmoot: Indestructible Trees

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Originally posted by FAI:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Field Marshal Blücher:

Yesterday I took out a tree with 2 hits from a 115-mm gun from a T-62.

Congratulation...??? </font>

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Originally posted by TheVulture:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by c3k:

Why can't I area fire into trees? Sure, I can area target the GROUND amongst the trees, but once the LOS penetrates too far such that the cursor cannot touch the ground, area fire is prevented. In my situation there is a wooded slope. I cannot fire through the tree canopy into the slope.

Same reason you can't area fire through smoke. a) it is extra work to code it to make it possible, and the number of legitimate uses it enables compared to the number of gamey ones probably weighs against it.

</font>

[TheVulture]

Originally posted by Field Marshal Blücher:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TheVulture:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by c3k:

Why can't I area fire into trees? Sure, I can area target the GROUND amongst the trees, but once the LOS penetrates too far such that the cursor cannot touch the ground, area fire is prevented. In my situation there is a wooded slope. I cannot fire through the tree canopy into the slope.

Same reason you can't area fire through smoke. a) it is extra work to code it to make it possible, and the number of legitimate uses it enables compared to the number of gamey ones probably weighs against it.

</font>

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Originally posted by TheVulture:

I know he said slope. But it's the same principle at play. In the case of the wooded slope where the tree canopy prevents you seeing the ground, you want to area fire the obscuring layer to affect something behind it. Exactly the same as smoke, where you in effect want to target a particular point on the surface of the smoke screen to affect something behind it.

It's the same basic principle: target the things that is obscuring (but providing no actual cover), to hit something you know is behind it.

So the reason you can't do it with trees may well be the same reason you can't do it with smoke (and I would guess that in terms of internal game mechanics, it is exactly the same situation.

OK, that makes sense then. Sorry for misinterpreting your post!

[c3k]

I'm not sure if BF.C has twigged onto this thread yet.

Is there ANY thought on trees being too resilient? Or is this some sort of deep-rooted bias I have?

Thanks for the thoughts on targeting through tree canopies. I had not looked at it from that perspective (comparing it to smoke, etc.). It makes sense.

In future modules, will trees be available without leaves? (Picking a December date in the editor will automatically stip deciduous trees of their foliage in Europe.)

Am I pushing the tree modelling too hard? Do you guys think it's okay, or am I being a sap?

Thanks,

Ken

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Originally posted by c3k:

Do you guys think it's okay, or am I being a sap?

Pun intended?

Regardless, I think trees could stand to be a little less tough, but make them too brittle and you have problems as well.

-FMB

[JonS]

Originally posted by Field Marshal Blücher:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by c3k:

Do you guys think it's okay, or am I being a sap?

Pun intended?</font>

[Redwolf]

FYI,

Ents are far from indestructible.

[Thomm]

c3k,

I played around with M1 versus bunkers in woods made from all kinds of different tree types.

I have seen a tree literally vanish after being hit by 120 mm HEAT, so this is coded somewhere.

It is difficult to judge, but it seems that the trunk has to take a direct hit for the tree to be destroyed.

Hitting the branches does not seem to destroy the tree.

Best regards,

Thomm

[SgtMuhammed]

You could always call arty on the trees first. That clears them away REALLY fast. It may also make it unnecessary for you to direct fire.

[Thomm]

My research indicates that the CM:SF model has it right.

Regarding to:

Roy Merrifield: Fire and explosion hazards to flora and fauna from explosives. Journal of Hazardous Materials A74 (2000).

10 kg of HE (155 mm HE) will produce:

A fireball of radius 3.5 meters.

Trees completely destroyed at a radius of 2.3 meters.

Trees heavily damaged at a radius of 3.7 meters.

Trees loose twigs and leaves only: 5.5 meters.

Undergrowth damaged up to radius: 7 meters.

A tank shell should have even less effect. I did not find any data for HEAT filler weight.

Best regards,

Thomm

[Clavicula_Nox]

Originally posted by SgtMuhammed:

You could always call arty on the trees first. That clears them away REALLY fast. It may also make it unnecessary for you to direct fire.

Someone should beg battlefront to code in Agent Orange. They can argue for years because it saw use sometime ago and is perfectly viable for ridding the "battlespace," of pesky vegetation. And dammit, the game isn't realistic without it.