My personal Praise topic

[SgtMuhammed]

Bother!

[Guest]

Originally posted by rune:

Umm drag me into this? I didn't flame, I corrected a falsehood you kept repeating AFTER i said it wasn't true. I did not attack you, nor would I. Go back and reread what I posted.

Rune

Sorry for the impending double post.

Rune, if you had bothered reading the responses to your posts, you would realize that you managed to offend both Lurker and me with your heated missives. I'm dragging you into it because you and Sixxkiller both don't seem to care very much about how you treat customers and, frankly, that's made me wonder.

[rune]

I'll let the readers decide. This was my so called attack:

"Philip,

Again, false logic. Who said patches do NOT continue after 1.05? No one here said that, what was said is not 100% of Charles' time goes towards patches, some time has to go to generate the new module. Bug fixes or game enhancements will be patched back into CMSF, but things like units, TO&e, will not for obvious reasons.

Again no one at battlefront said 1.04 or 1.05 is the final patch, quit saying that.

Rune"

The entire thread is available to read. Heated? I think not.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

Hey Phillip,

You need a serious dose of get over it. Maybe you should seek some help if you are wary of people on an electronic forum.

As for your professional integrity, LMAO. I believe I said something to the tune of you have 4 years to do something better. Tick tock. (Hey its an IED...duck. Assaulting you. Hey thx for the laugh Phillip. )

Maybe if you stop complaining and listen, you will not have to feel assaulted.

Oh ya and when is your CMSF killer coming again?

I dunno, Sixxkiller. You were pretty interested in my personal information... if that wouldn't make a person wary (especially a person who is easy to find via Google) then that person would be an idiot.

Also, Sixxkiller, you were pretty damned insulting in your posts. If you really think that what you posted was to the "tune" of what you've just recalled, you need to go back and re-read.

Maybe if you start acting like a professional, people won't feel "assaulted".

As for the CMSF killer, I dunno. I have a full-time job and a family so even a 100-hour project can take months. I am working on a tactical game at the moment, but I doubt, being the work of one programmer/bad artist/designer (all in one) over a few months, whether it'll be a "CMSF-killer".

[Guest]

Originally posted by rune:

I'll let the readers decide. This was my so called attack:

"Philip,

Again, false logic. Who said patches do NOT continue after 1.05? No one here said that, what was said is not 100% of Charles' time goes towards patches, some time has to go to generate the new module. Bug fixes or game enhancements will be patched back into CMSF, but things like units, TO&e, will not for obvious reasons.

Again no one at battlefront said 1.04 or 1.05 is the final patch, quit saying that.

Rune"

The entire thread is available to read. Heated? I think not.

Where was it that you told Lurker and I that we needed to back off because you're an employee and we didn't know what we were talking about? You made at least half a dozen posts in that thread.

Also, people who posted after you finished your tirade agreed with Lurker and I that you'd gone overboard.

[rune]

Not going to argue, here is the thread. At NO TIME did I say to backoff.

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=003066

Everyone can read the thread and see who is out of line. Nor did I bring it back up.

Rune

[JohnO]

Guys, you're not a Beta Tester your a Charley Tester

Its a joke so don't jump me Everybody needs to go to there neutral corners and take a breath of fresh air.

JohnO

[Sixxkiller]

So Phillip, you think I dont care about customers? Well actually I do care about the people that are going to read your (and to be fair quite a few others) posts and not buy the game because you cant seem to see the forrest for the trees. Who's interest does that serve? It sure doesnt serve the guy (or gal) who wants to play a game of this setting and will miss out because of the constant gimme gimme gimme attitude some of you exibit.

Disappointment is fine as is frustration, but someone who is in the "software" business not truly understanding that every single game or application ever made was #1 buggy, and #2 essentially a beta throught the whole life of said software, sure needs to get into something else.

Oh ya and I dont have any vested interest in this game except the same reasons you do. I do not get paid, being a beta tester doesnt get me anymore leeway in posting guidelines than a non-beta tester, nor do I get anything except a license to test.

What you are failing to understand is I want this game to be just as good if not better than you do. The only difference between us is I have a wee bit more of an objective take than you do as I realize (and can see) that its a small company that is doing thier job in the fastest manner they can. What you do know is why it was released in the state it was and you still cant forgive them for it.

But in these type of threads the only loser will be the guy that reads all the negative uninformed stuff you guys write and will potentially miss out on a product that can be great.

[Sixxkiller]

I am sorry, didn't I just ask you who your worked for or what games have YOU worked on? I didnt ask for the keys to the house or the wifes bra size did I? You are a wee bit sensitive and why anyone who is so "wary" would use thier name as thier forum name.

Originally posted by Phillip Culliton:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

Hey Phillip,

You need a serious dose of get over it. Maybe you should seek some help if you are wary of people on an electronic forum.

As for your professional integrity, LMAO. I believe I said something to the tune of you have 4 years to do something better. Tick tock. (Hey its an IED...duck. Assaulting you. Hey thx for the laugh Phillip. )

Maybe if you stop complaining and listen, you will not have to feel assaulted.

Oh ya and when is your CMSF killer coming again?

I dunno, Sixxkiller. You were pretty interested in my personal information... if that wouldn't make a person wary (especially a person who is easy to find via Google) then that person would be an idiot.

Also, Sixxkiller, you were pretty damned insulting in your posts. If you really think that what you posted was to the "tune" of what you've just recalled, you need to go back and re-read.

Maybe if you start acting like a professional, people won't feel "assaulted".

As for the CMSF killer, I dunno. I have a full-time job and a family so even a 100-hour project can take months. I am working on a tactical game at the moment, but I doubt, being the work of one programmer/bad artist/designer (all in one) over a few months, whether it'll be a "CMSF-killer". </font>

[Guest]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

Disappointment is fine as is frustration, but someone who is in the "software" business not truly understanding that every single game or application ever made was #1 buggy, and #2 essentially a beta throught the whole life of said software, sure needs to get into something else.

I understand this very well, thanks. I work in an industry where we're fixing bugs literally every day, years after the products were released. Games have a cutoff point, at least; no one expects them to be supported ten years down the road. The folks I manage are still supporting APIs for software that was released in the mid-90's.

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

Oh ya and I dont have any vested interest in this game except the same reasons you do. I do not get paid, being a beta tester doesnt get me anymore leeway in posting guidelines than a non-beta tester, nor do I get anything except a license to test.

Your posts were pretty awful, Sixxkiller. I really thought you were some kind of bizarre predatory troll. I would imagine that seeing that on another game's forums would also give you some kind of idea that the game company's representatives get leeway.

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

What you do know is why it was released in the state it was and you still cant forgive them for it.

I've been, overall, very supportive of CM:SF. Anybody who goes home from a 12-hour-a-day job, puts his kids to bed, and looks for bugs in a product he has no contractual ties to would, I hope, be seen as supportive anyway.

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

But in these type of threads the only loser will be the guy that reads all the negative uninformed stuff you guys write and will potentially miss out on a product that can be great.

I think people seeing that customers are posting about bugs would only scare those people away if they didn't want to deal with bugs. In which case, they should probably have waited until now (1.04) to buy, right?

[Dennis50]

This started out as a "Praise" thread and quickly turned into a I hate you and you hate me thread ..give it a break already ..exactly what have you guys accomplished here?

Regards,

Gunz

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

That aside, from the gitgo, BFC has acknowledged CMSF was rushed. Some of you guys know from being around here that BFC does thier best to make good games. They arent trying to pull the wool over your eyes or insult your intelligence. They said we have issues, we are working on them, hold one, when the patch is ready, we will get it to you.

What did some of you do? You continued to complain like it was the end of the world, that the 45-70 bucks you spent on the game went the same way as Enron, and that your favorite gaming company is now a sell-out like Mettalica and just looking for the $$$.

You see, the thing is, people here sometimes have opinions, and as this is a forum it's natural to express them. Otherwise what's the point of the board? You seem to be confusing this place with a fan club.

And IIRC, Steve has said many many times that CMSF wasnt going to be like CMx1. So expecting CMSF to be CmAK is whos fault again?

The vast bulk of people here were well aware CMSF wasn't going to be CMAK. What wasn't expected was an extremely buggy and incomplete release - to a contract BFC signed, I might add - with semantics and smoke being used to create a hostile atmosphere.

If you want to know what might frighten off customers it's this strident, arrogant tone, not being open and honest about game flaws.

[Abbott]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

So you think there are only imaginary customers who read message boards and decide to buy a game based on players reviews.

Nope. I think that you thinking a bunch of players didn't purchase CM:SF because of the posters to this Forum is a difficult argument to make. If you do a bit of research on this Forum I think that you will find that there is only a couple hundred posters here with more then just a few posts. Plus Steve has said several times that the Forum regulars are not much of BFC's customer base numbers wise. I think the buggy release and bad reviews had way more effect on customers then this Forum has.

Hell go on other gaming boards and try to post negative comments about the game and see how fast your post is removed and you are banned.

I have been using a few dozen game companies Forums for years, your incorrect and appear to be excessively emotional about this one.

What did some of you do? You continued to complain Well thats poor PR right? Ya the CEO down to the lowly beta testers try to answer questions for you and its bad PR right?

Nope. In my opinion Beta testers calling the folks with complaints, concerns and disappointments A$$hats and whiners, that’s bad PR and your part of it.

And IIRC, Steve has said many many times that CMSF wasnt going to be like CMx1. So expecting CMSF to be CmAK is whos fault again?

I never expected CM:SF to be like CMX1, I expected it to be better. I am disappointed that my favorite game companies newest release was so full of bugs that it was un-playable. I am disappointed that many customers and potential opponents may have been lost because of bugs and poor reviews. I am disappointed that the community has turned sour and that CM:SF Clubs, Tournaments, PBEM directories and so forth haven't been springing up left and right. I am disappointed that I am not enjoying CM:SF but I keep trying to play it. I am disappointed for BFC because they are a good bunch of guys.

And in closing, BFC hasnt changed, the game has. If you dont like the subject matter, thats fine, CMx2WWII will be out eventually,

In closing (to you) I like the idea of a modern setting so I would suggest you cease trying to use WWII as an argument directed towards me. I think CMX2 may need another release or two before it matures into being as good a game as CMX1 and I think in the future it may become a better game then CMX1. I have faith in BFC and I think something good will come from this new engine. I also look forward to home computing power catching up with the CMX2 game engine that alone should be a tremendous boon.

I also think feedback is good for any professional. I will say that negative feedback may be annoying and could be stressful but from what I have seen the guys at BFC handle negative feedback pretty well. Maybe you should relax a bit.

[ October 04, 2007, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Abbott ]

[Huntarr]

Originally posted by Phillip Culliton:

Where was it that you told Lurker and I that we needed to back off because you're an employee and we didn't know what we were talking about? You made at least half a dozen posts in that thread.

You know what's funny this all started because someone didn't know what search was for. Search would help find that thread also.

*pours gas on fire*

*slowly backs out of the room*

DAMN YOU SEARCH... DAMN YOU to HELL

[ October 04, 2007, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Huntarr ]

[RMC]

Originally posted by Phillip Culliton:

What makes for poor post-release PR is when employees start popping onto forums and attacking -- no, *assaulting* -- customers.

"In the bocage country we we're assaulted by them tigers. Do you know what I mean by assaulted!"

[Sixxkiller]

First off, its not the forum regulars that I am worried about. There are lurkers and people that happen on this site from everywhere else on the net. I would have thought you had already bought the game Abbott, seeing how its your favorite gaming company.

Lets see go to say Blizzard,EA, Operation Flashpoint, the Counter-Strike boards, Lineage II, Baseball Mogul and see if you are still posting negative comments or that people will being seeing them in a few hours.

And when did I say any of my closing comments were about you Abbott?

And ofcourse feedback is good in any profession. Bile induced and repetive rampages are helpful how again?

[KNac]

You all have blatantlly hijacked and srewed the thread the guy started it. I recommend you all to stop it and continue any personal dispute through PM or e-mail.

Best regards,

me.

[Battlefront.com]

Hmmm.... let's see. Should I lock this one up or not? For now I say "not", but if the previous back and forths continue I will snap the padlock.

---

When a company, or a government, feels that it is beyond the need for constructive criticism, it is likely headed in the wrong direction and will ultimately fail to survive. The reason for having this Forum is to get respectful criticism, praise, questions, concerns, etc. aimed at making CM a better game and to have a fun time in the process of it. This is the BEST way to make Combat Mission better. It's when things aren't respectful that we have some issues...

Like it or not, it is the customers that set the tone here, not us. If the customers are overreacting, insulting, tossing around baseless accusations, or generally TRYING to be offensive... well, yeah... some of that is going to come right back at them in an effort to contain it without having to ban people. We have the right to challenge customers when they are off base OR we have the right to shut them out of the discussion completely. We've always felt that a heated discussion is better than not having one at all (i.e. banning people for being counter-productive). It seems to work out better for everybody, but I suppose if the consensus here was that we should ban people who are overly aggressive and/or not demonstrating good debating skills, we could give that a shot. I guarantee you that you'd see a whole style of posts from us drop out of the mix because there would no longer be a reason to express it. Take your pick... you want us to post all sweet and nice every time, fine... we'll just ban anybody that pisses us off and there will be no need to respond to them. Problem solved!

The alternative to the current method of running this Forum, or the opposite extreme where people are banned for being out of line, is for us to say to an abusive customer "thank you for ramming that broom handle up our arses. We value that feeling and the splinters, so we'll tacitly encourage more of it because you, the customer, has every right to treat us like dirt". Whether some of you know it or not, that is exactly what some have argued we should be doing in the interests of "good PR". Not sure how it could be good to turn this Forum over to trolls and people with personality disorders, but hey... what do I know... I've only been doing this for 15 years

Hmmm... I guess we'll keep things the way they are

We encourage an open and critical examination of Combat Mission. This is extremely valuable to all of us, customer and us alike, so it is a wonderful thing when it works right. So let's concentrate on constructive dialog and discourage, as a group, unproductive behavior. We'll continue to have a fairly high level of tolerance for abuse, but we will not let the abuse go unchallenged. If a customer doesn't want to be involved in some head butting, then simply don't read the given thread and move onto something else. For every one heated thread here there are a multitude that are great reads.

I hope with v1.04 we can really put the initial hubris behind us and move onto improving the game. I sense that already happening and I'm very glad for it. Perhaps the initial period was unavoidable due to the double shock of technical problems and that CMx2 wasn't a warmed over version of CMx1 (we did warn people ). I'll be the first to admit that things didn't go as well as we would have liked, but I'll also be right there in front saying they didn't go as badly as some think they did. CM:SF is a great game and it will get even better over time. You guys can help with that as you helped make CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK better.

Steve

[aka_tom_w]

how about this...

The more time Steve and the beta testers spend dealing with this "stuff" the less time they have to work on v1.05.

Oh you say....

Are they actually working on v1.05 already? :confused:

Well what do you think?

I think that might be a higher priority and a more effective use of their time. :eek:

[helm123]

I have been lurking for some time now, when not play CMBO, CMBB or CMAK.

Nothing in the forum either negative or positive has made me buy or not buy CMSF. I took my time and tried the demo before putting up my cash for the game after I learned a lesson by jumping on the TOW band wagon.

The demo dissappointed my extremly. The game feels way to scripted for my tastes. It just felt more like I was playing a puzzle in the second mission in the demo and that reminded me of TOW too much.

Now other people enjoy that design and thats there right, but please dont believe the forum is the biggest thing driving the hord of customers off.

Back to CMAK.

[KNac]

just to cool down things a bit, and as afterall the thread has been hijacked... how much betatesters there are? (roughly) and this more a personal question, do you guys buy the game for supporting issues or whatever (answer if you want lol)?

now more on topic, will BF consider open beta-testing (signing NDAs) in the future? maybe under the 'pre-order' signing? i'm sure BF could make some fast cash before the game is released and the players could get to test it, allowing a wider sample of systems and users to test it.

Would like to see it happen

[KNac]

Originally posted by helm123:

I have been lurking for some time now, when not play CMBO, CMBB or CMAK.

Nothing in the forum either negative or positive has made me buy or not buy CMSF. I took my time and tried the demo before putting up my cash for the game after I learned a lesson by jumping on the TOW band wagon.

The demo dissappointed my extremly. The game feels way to scripted for my tastes. It just felt more like I was playing a puzzle in the second mission in the demo and that reminded me of TOW too much.

Now other people enjoy that design and thats there right, but please dont believe the forum is the biggest thing driving the hord of customers off.

Back to CMAK.

will you try again with 1.04 demo? just curious. I agree that forum does not have that much impact soem people may think.

[Guest]

Steve, to my mind, there's a difference between not "being all sweet and nice" and this:

Why keep it [ed: my industry] a secret? You say that you know how the business is. Have you ever worked for a games developer? And who says you CAN help? If you could do the stuff Charles does, lets see it.

As far as your budget, I dont know BFC's budget but why dont we just say your bank account as a starter.

Still 4 years..... tick tock tick tock

When I'd said nothing along those lines at all.

and

Quit the bull**** that Steve said it was finished.

Again no one at battlefront said 1.04 or 1.05 is the final patch, quit saying that.

Simple, Perhaps if you and lurker would notice that I am part of battlefront, and I am speaking officially, maybe you should listen? I know EXACTLY what it means, it means exactly what I said. No one said we will patch untill no one plays anymore, good way of going under. You heard BFC's response from me several times and have ignored what I have said. [shrugs]

When Lurker and I had the temerity to get pissed at the rumor that you guys might not be continuing to patch CM:SF after 1.05.

I'd say that ordering people around and getting all weird on them is pretty far from not "being all sweet and nice".

I'd also say I'm pretty far from being an abusive or constantly complaining customer.

Look, it's true that this thread got hijacked. I'll just step away for bit, I'm sure we all have enough crap to deal with without dealing with what this thread has become.

I don't have a save for that bug by the way, Steve. I'll see if I can reproduce one tonight after I put the latest little Culliton down after his midnight feeding.

[KNac]

from your quotes I think only the last one is from Rune, which is the only one of the quoted people who is on BF roster. The betatesters can talk for theirshelves.

And the last quote does not seem as bad to me, cause some people started to say BF was stopping working on the game after 1.04 out of nowhere, so eys pretty much it was bull**** and unnecessary to spread the rumour, and some ignored when it was said that was false until actually rune did it the way he did.

I'm not defending BF posture, but I think that Steve is pretty much right when he says he will treat customers as they treat them, afterall we all are mature persons and should espect that.

[helm123]

Originally posted by KNac:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by helm123:

I have been lurking for some time now, when not play CMBO, CMBB or CMAK.

Nothing in the forum either negative or positive has made me buy or not buy CMSF. I took my time and tried the demo before putting up my cash for the game after I learned a lesson by jumping on the TOW band wagon.

The demo dissappointed my extremly. The game feels way to scripted for my tastes. It just felt more like I was playing a puzzle in the second mission in the demo and that reminded me of TOW too much.

Now other people enjoy that design and thats there right, but please dont believe the forum is the biggest thing driving the hord of customers off.

Back to CMAK.

will you try again with 1.04 demo? just curious. I agree that forum does not have that much impact soem people may think. </font>