My personal Praise topic

[Kieme(ITA)]

Hello everybody!

Since I wrote down many criticisms about this game I'd like for once to express my praise to BFC for the improvement provided with all the patches.

Actually I can see 2 very important improvements made:

-bug correction

-graphic optimization

As regarding the first one I must say that some bugs have been completely levelled, and some more have been somewhat reduced. Actually the bug count could be said to be normal and enough for a real release game version.

As regarding graphic optimization, since I can now run the game at 100% of its capabilities with a computer that can run any other game at top for the time being I must say I am very pleased. Although this confirms my opinions about absent graphic optimization in the first time.

Still I have to underline again one more point:

-the game was released at a beta stage

Not a criminal act for sure, but it has been a pity since with 1.04 patch the game has to be reconsidered as a new one for many aspects. Unfortunately the mistake made with the release version cannot be cancelled nor forgotten...

So my big hope is that BFC will take this lesson and will keep what happened during the last months as a foundamental reference for the next games to come. I am sure this hope is in brave, competend and secure hands: BFC hands.

Final word:

Thank you!

Best regards.

[jomni]

On the other hand, BFC would have not made the changes if they did not release it early. The public are still the best way to beta test.

[Kieme(ITA)]

I'm pretty sure that bugs would have been an easy spot for betatesters or a small crew of betatesters. Also some compatibility issues like the big one regarding dual core should have been noticed...

Finally if BFC would like such kind of betatesting as you say they could do one very simple thing:

open to the public a beta testing period of a next-to-release game..

For example this is what has been done for a next future blockbuster such as Warhammer Online, they opened to a lot of betatesters a month ago but the game won't be out before 2008...

Since CM has a community that helps as we seen duing the last months regarding CMSF I think that a similar approach would be much more interesting and correct...

[thewood]

BFC knows as much if not more about public beta testing than any game companies around. From what I remember, they were one of the first compnaies to do it. Go read the CMBO forum archives.

[Kieme(ITA)]

So why they didn't do it for this game as well? Why did they release it in beta stage?

If this was BFC fist game ever I woulnd't mind, but I expected something better because of the previous games.. and I think I'm not the only one.

I haven't created this topic to attack BFC, but seems many of you people just don't get it.

[thewood]

Steve explained in several threads already. I have complained as much about it as anyone. Do you even read the forums or use search. I was just pointing out that concept is not unheard of by BFC.

[Kieme(ITA)]

So there was no need to add that comment of yours to this topic.

I wanted to express my point of view and my actual word about the game.

I took the chance to add this comment about the situation the game was at the first release.

I read the forums, although I've a life also and so I'm not on the forums 24/24 and 7/7, maybe I missed some official statements.

BFC is very concerned to public beta and they expressed this? Good, fine. It's in the same line of my ideas.

Still my statement is to stay, since I cannot read other people minds and since I wanted to express some good words about the game I took the chance to remind the negative aspect too.

All of this for my two cents only. I'm not a player more important than enyone else on this board and I never wanted to express myself in such way, and I'm pretty sure my posts don't express this kind of attitude.

[JohnO]

not enough coffee in the early morning disregard this post.

[ October 04, 2007, 03:54 AM: Message edited by: JohnO ]

[Sixxkiller]

You know wood, you yourself basicly stated the same **** over and over when you were more unhappy with the game and we read it. So if you look at his name and see that most likely he is from Italy and English isn't his first language, maybe cut him a bit of slack for not using the "search" button to find a reference to his question.

[Sixxkiller]

There were no bugs the "beta" testers didnt find. Its just harder to fix bugs when there is only one programmer and 24 hours in a day coupled with need for sleep, family life, throwing darts at Moon's picture, and resupply of Red Bull.

Originally posted by Kieme(ITA):

I'm pretty sure that bugs would have been an easy spot for betatesters or a small crew of betatesters. Also some compatibility issues like the big one regarding dual core should have been noticed...

Finally if BFC would like such kind of betatesting as you say they could do one very simple thing:

open to the public a beta testing period of a next-to-release game..

For example this is what has been done for a next future blockbuster such as Warhammer Online, they opened to a lot of betatesters a month ago but the game won't be out before 2008...

Since CM has a community that helps as we seen duing the last months regarding CMSF I think that a similar approach would be much more interesting and correct...

[Kieme(ITA)]

Sixxkiller I understand how it was problematic the game preparation and I still think (I never thought differently) that BFC has put an incredible effort in CM series games!

By the way I reported a possible solution or idea about this kind of problematic... the open beta testing phase.

I'm pretty sure that this CMSF experience has taught a lot to BFC and especially they had the chance to improve the new CM2x engine.

So that we have the right to hope for a brighter future of such engine when it will be used for the next WW2 title.... but even at that time there could be new problems or things to think about, a lot of new content will be worked out and that's why I think an open (or semi open) beta testing (with whatever rules/entries etc.) at that future time might proof very very useful.

[thewood]

I was just responding to his statement that we would think he was attacking BFC. Far from it. I was pointing out that BFC has done public beta releases and if you read old CMBO archives you would see the result. I then pointed out that Steve had addressed the issue several times.

I personally don't care where someone is from. Regardless of his language skills he was clearly stating that BFC should do public betas. I pointed out they had done it before. I also pointed out I was a big complainer of the beta release of CMSF.

I was actually trying to help him and point him to the information in a short concise manner. I must have poor language skills, because I don't understand how it managed to generate a response from you (Sixxkiller), as well as a response that I seem to be thinking he is attacking BFC.

[Sixxkiller]

Well you are one to talk about attacking BFC. Should we revisit some of your previous posts?

I think a link would be sufficent instead of asking if he reads the forums or uses a search. No point in making this any more hostile to someone who is newer around here. Besides, I dont use the search button and dont have enough time to read everything and I have been here far longer than most. Steve addresses a lot of things in multiple posts because you guys keep asking the same questions.

[thewood]

I have attacked them. And I feel they deserved it. Now Lets get back to the point of my last post. I was helping the guy. Pointed out I wasn't defending BFC. Where did you come in?

[SSG DEG]

Originally posted by jomni:

On the other hand, BFC would have not made the changes if they did not release it early. The public are still the best way to beta test.

AMEN: Given BFC's attitude on fixing things until it is right, I don't mind paying for a product that needs and will get free improvements.

[Sixxkiller]

I came in when you said without a question mark, "Do you even read the forums or use the search."

And helping isnt saying that unless his question was, "Hey how do I search for why they released the game in whatever manner blah blah blah?"

And I "come in" because you have most likely already driven a few people away with your crybaby attitude in previous threads even after you were told that it was being worked on, wait for the patch. So why be "hostile" to someone who may have a legitimate question and may not know how to "use a search" function like you do. We had to listen to your rants. Why doesnt he get the same respect?

[thewood]

Look I told the guy very neutrally where to find the answer to the public beta question after he in so many words said we were defending BFC. I made no personal attacks, I gave him enough info to get the answer, and I get a personal attack from you. So tell me what your guidelines are for not getting a crass response from you.

I got "hostile" as you say because he came back and acted like I was going fanboy on him, when I had a very neutral response. I asked a specific question if read the forums or used search, because the exact issue of premature release had been addressed by BFC several times. I didn't feel the need nor the urge to go do the search myself.

[Abbott]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

And I "come in" because you have most likely already driven a few people away with your crybaby attitude in previous threads

All the imaginary customers? In my opinion what drove people away was an extremely buggy release, poor PR right after release and expectations of what the software would do that it does not do. Plus the fact that Combat Mission has morphed into something that many posters to this Forum didn't expect with CM:SF multitude of missing Combat Mission style features. Of course BFC is doing a good job of catch-up with patches but even that seemed strained for a time. It came close to appearing forced after the comments of "CM:SF is almost done, now we will concentrate on the other module" That has changed to "You bastards we never said we were done patching so knock your ****te off!"

The name calling of "whiner" at the folks who expected more from their favorite game company by those supporting the poor release of CM:SF however does seem to be endorsed. I have yet to see someone reporting a bug or posting their disappointment with the poor release of CM:SF call anyone on this Forum an A$$hat but some of the Beta testers do it almost daily. I plan to wait awhile longer, maybe even two more releases before I plunk my money down for CMX2 and that is the exact advice I have given the friends I game with. I guess they might be a few of those who were driven away eh?

Of course if I stumble across CM:SF on sale somewhere with the A$$hat Forum coupon intact I may purchase it. Then look out!

[Sixxkiller]

I never said you made a personal attack. Nor did I attack your personally. I simply said cut the guy some slack. You come back with some notion that you are a help. He even took offense to your comment. Thats not a help. I dont believe he said you were defending anyone. You would actually fall into the opposite of that scenario.

Originally posted by thewood:

Look I told the guy very neutrally where to find the answer to the public beta question after he in so many words said we were defending BFC. I made no personal attacks, I gave him enough info to get the answer, and I get a personal attack from you. So tell me what your guidelines are for not getting a crass response from you.

I got "hostile" as you say because he came back and acted like I was going fanboy on him, when I had a very neutral response. I asked a specific question if read the forums or used search, because the exact issue of premature release had been addressed by BFC several times. I didn't feel the need nor the urge to go do the search myself.

[dalem]

Originally posted by Abbott:

All the imaginary customers? In my opinion what drove people away was an extremely buggy release, poor PR right after release and expectations of what the software would do that it does not do. Plus the fact that Combat Mission has morphed into something that many posters to this Forum didn't expect with CM:SF multitude of missing Combat Mission style features. Of course BFC is doing a good job of catch-up with patches but even that seemed strained for a time. It came close to appearing forced after the comments of "CM:SF is almost done, now we will concentrate on the other module" That has changed to "You bastards we never said we were done patching so knock your ****te off!"

Yeah, the attitude is almost as much of a problem as the actual issues (either perceived or real) the game has.

-dale

[Sixxkiller]

So you think there are only imaginary customers who read message boards and decide to buy a game based on players reviews. Hell go on other gaming boards and try to post negative comments about the game and see how fast your post is removed and you are banned.

That aside, from the gitgo, BFC has acknowledged CMSF was rushed. Some of you guys know from being around here that BFC does thier best to make good games. They arent trying to pull the wool over your eyes or insult your intelligence. They said we have issues, we are working on them, hold one, when the patch is ready, we will get it to you.

What did some of you do? You continued to complain like it was the end of the world, that the 45-70 bucks you spent on the game went the same way as Enron, and that your favorite gaming company is now a sell-out like Mettalica and just looking for the $$$. Well thats poor PR right? Ya the CEO down to the lowly beta testers try to answer questions for you and its bad PR right? Go

t any emails from Bill Gates lately on how bad Vista is?

And IIRC, Steve has said many many times that CMSF wasnt going to be like CMx1. So expecting CMSF to be CmAK is whos fault again?

And you are right, we beta testers do know more than you do about whats coming. We tell you what we can insofar as not violating the trust of BFC and the NDA we signed, then we get told we dont know what the hell we are doing and we cant see bugs on a daily basis. So some of us react. We are fanboys right?

And in closing, BFC hasnt changed, the game has. If you dont like the subject matter, thats fine, CMx2WWII will be out eventually, will more than likely have been polished up pretty good from CMSF's growing pains and you'll be back, bargain bin or not.

Originally posted by Abbott:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

And I "come in" because you have most likely already driven a few people away with your crybaby attitude in previous threads

All the imaginary customers? In my opinion what drove people away was an extremely buggy release, poor PR right after release and expectations of what the software would do that it does not do. Plus the fact that Combat Mission has morphed into something that many posters to this Forum didn't expect with CM:SF multitude of missing Combat Mission style features. Of course BFC is doing a good job of catch-up with patches but even that seemed strained for a time. It came close to appearing forced after the comments of "CM:SF is almost done, now we will concentrate on the other module" That has changed to "You bastards we never said we were done patching so knock your ****te off!"

The name calling of "whiner" at the folks who expected more from their favorite game company by those supporting the poor release of CM:SF however does seem to be endorsed. I have yet to see someone reporting a bug or posting their disappointment with the poor release of CM:SF call anyone on this Forum an A$$hat but some of the Beta testers do it almost daily. I plan to wait awhile longer, maybe even two more releases before I plunk my money down for CMX2 and that is the exact advice I have given the friends I game with. I guess they might be a few of those who were driven away eh?

Of course if I stumble across CM:SF on sale somewhere with the A$$hat Forum coupon intact I may purchase it. Then look out! </font>

[Guest]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

So you think there are only imaginary customers who read message boards and decide to buy a game based on players reviews. Hell go on other gaming boards and try to post negative comments about the game and see how fast your post is removed and you are banned.

Go on any other game's forums and see how many positive posts there are about *any* game. Not many. Nobody gets banned unless they're trolls or gold sellers. What game forums are you talking about?

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

What did some of you do? You continued to complain like it was the end of the world, that the 45-70 bucks you spent on the game went the same way as Enron, and that your favorite gaming company is now a sell-out like Mettalica and just looking for the $$$. Well thats poor PR right? Ya the CEO down to the lowly beta testers try to answer questions for you and its bad PR right? Go

t any emails from Bill Gates lately on how bad Vista is?

What makes for poor post-release PR is when employees start popping onto forums and attacking -- no, *assaulting* -- customers. The two worst exchanges I've had here have been with you and Rune. I call shenanigans.

Steve, what's up with this? If I'd known Sixxkiller here was also a BFC contractee when he attacked me and my professional integrity (and made me pretty wary of him, honestly), I would have brought it to your attention sooner. I think it sucks that employees can mercilessly flame paying customers, then play the "we work here!" card like Rune did. I thought Sixxkiller was just a particularly abusive troll -- now I know why he wasn't worried about flaming me so cruelly.

As for our complaints, Sixxkiller... I'm a beta tester too. I just *paid* for the privilege, and I get less access to BFC to boot.

However, even after months of banging on this game and reporting problems, I'm still here trying to help, and I'm not flaming anybody either, unlike you and Rune. Get off our backs. We're trying too.

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

And you are right, we beta testers do know more than you do about whats coming. We tell you what we can insofar as not violating the trust of BFC and the NDA we signed, then we get told we dont know what the hell we are doing and we cant see bugs on a daily basis. So some of us react. We are fanboys right?

So... stop reacting? If you can't behave professionally, don't post in the public forum?

[thewood]

Steve, I gotta agree here. Sixxkiller is seems to be thowing out a trump card of I know more than you so shut up. I sure hope he's not someone you are depending to represent BFC to your customers.

[Sixxkiller]

Hey Phillip,

You need a serious dose of get over it. Maybe you should seek some help if you are wary of people on an electronic forum.

As for your professional integrity, LMAO. I believe I said something to the tune of you have 4 years to do something better. Tick tock. (Hey its an IED...duck. Assaulting you. Hey thx for the laugh Phillip. )

Maybe if you stop complaining and listen, you will not have to feel assaulted.

Oh ya and when is your CMSF killer coming again?

Originally posted by Phillip Culliton:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

So you think there are only imaginary customers who read message boards and decide to buy a game based on players reviews. Hell go on other gaming boards and try to post negative comments about the game and see how fast your post is removed and you are banned.

Go on any other game's forums and see how many positive posts there are about *any* game. Not many. Nobody gets banned unless they're trolls or gold sellers. What game forums are you talking about?

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

What did some of you do? You continued to complain like it was the end of the world, that the 45-70 bucks you spent on the game went the same way as Enron, and that your favorite gaming company is now a sell-out like Mettalica and just looking for the $$$. Well thats poor PR right? Ya the CEO down to the lowly beta testers try to answer questions for you and its bad PR right? Go

t any emails from Bill Gates lately on how bad Vista is?

What makes for poor post-release PR is when employees start popping onto forums and attacking -- no, *assaulting* -- customers. The two worst exchanges I've had here have been with you and Rune. I call shenanigans.

Steve, what's up with this? If I'd known Sixxkiller here was also a BFC contractee when he attacked me and my professional integrity (and made me pretty wary of him, honestly), I would have brought it to your attention sooner. I think it sucks that employees can mercilessly flame paying customers, then play the "we work here!" card like Rune did. I thought Sixxkiller was just a particularly abusive troll -- now I know why he wasn't worried about flaming me so cruelly.

As for our complaints, Sixxkiller... I'm a beta tester too. I just *paid* for the privilege, and I get less access to BFC to boot.

However, even after months of banging on this game and reporting problems, I'm still here trying to help, and I'm not flaming anybody either, unlike you and Rune. Get off our backs. We're trying too.

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

And you are right, we beta testers do know more than you do about whats coming. We tell you what we can insofar as not violating the trust of BFC and the NDA we signed, then we get told we dont know what the hell we are doing and we cant see bugs on a daily basis. So some of us react. We are fanboys right?

So... stop reacting? If you can't behave professionally, don't post in the public forum? </font>

[rune]

Umm drag me into this? I didn't flame, I corrected a falsehood you kept repeating AFTER i said it wasn't true. I did not attack you, nor would I. Go back and reread what I posted.

Rune