jonp Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 All, I am still confused about what I can and cannot see. From what I read in the manual, if I select one of my units, the enemy units he can see are supposed to be lit up, right? Well, if that is the case, shouldn't I be able to target those lit up enemy units? When I try to target them (I assume you just find the floating icon and target that, right?), it either says "Reverse Slope" or "Target out of sight" (or something like that. Is this a bug or is there something I am missing? Thx jonpfl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastttt Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 those that are reverse slope or out of site are 1's that unit has been informed about(you could area fire just to keep them from popping from that area or the info has been past to someone higher on the food chain for faster arty support) 1 way of elimitating the borg spotting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonp Posted September 28, 2007 Author Share Posted September 28, 2007 Originally posted by Beastttt: those that are reverse slope or out of site are 1's that unit has been informed about(you could area fire just to keep them from popping from that area or the info has been past to someone higher on the food chain for faster arty support) 1 way of elimitating the borg spotting Oh, so when you select one of your units, the enemy units that are highlighted are either in line of sight of you OR units that are in line of sight of units you are in contact of (but out of sight from you)? If so, that makes sense. Thx 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garm Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 jonp, I played some scenarios and I experienced exactly the same problem. But my guys get shot at and if I manually want to assign them a target (they rarely open fire on their own, if the enemy is some hundred meters away), I get the reserve slope message although the same unit I target can shoot at my guys. Sometimes, it helps if I give them the area fire command next to the enemy and then reassign the target, but not to often. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Garm, I have been asking that question off and on for weeks now. There is a thread right next to this one that is, in some ways, asking the same thing. I understand that spotting may play a role. In other words, just because someone is shooting at you, doesn't mean you can see them. I am guessing that what may be happening here is a team is shooting at your guy, but most of the team is behind a hill. One or two guys are at the top. One of two things may be happening: 1) LOS is traced to the center of the enemy squad/action point so you can't shoot back, even though you can be shot. 2) You haven't truly "spotted" the enemy unit. You may have LOS, but some random spotting factor is keeping your guy from actually acquiring the enemy. I am hoping its #2, but am concerned its #1. #2 is a leap forward in tactical 3D wargaming (Even though POA2 has been doing it for years in 2D). #1 is a fatal design decision. To understand what I am saying, you have make sure you can look at the difference between LOS and actually spotting a target. LOF is also in here somewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Originally posted by thewood: 1) LOS is traced to the center of the enemy squad/action point so you can't shoot back, even though you can be shot. This is really confusing sometimes. You can see a unit, yet when you try to target the unit there's text "reverse slope, no LOS" or something. If there's no LOS, how can I see it? And it happens with tanks too, so the reason can't be that some of the squad are out of sight. And still I can target this unit and destroy it with my fire. I really hope 1.04 makes all these different spotting/firing factors work so that they show more coherent results to user. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garm Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 thewood, thanks for your reply. What you say may well be true, although it seemed to me that my unit had clear LOS and LOF. I played the scenario Choke Point which I downloaded from CMMODS. The enemy was a HMG lying downhill and I wanted to return fire with the M2 of a Humvee. Nevertheless, it is frustrating not to be able to return fire without knowing why. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 This was wirtten in other threads: thewood: We can expect that squad members can be shot without any possibility of LOS to the enemy?me: Again, NO. If there is no LOS, there is no LOF. LOF is tracked per each unit (per soldier in temas/squads). Some bizarre behaviour may happen in case in squads which are split , I don't mean split on teams, squads which are moving and occupe various positions, you may refeer to this case maybe? In this case you can observe the icon is in the middle of the line you can trace from one extrem of the squad to the other, that's the action spot as per game LOS calculations, but as each element of the squad is one or other action spot, they can get fire from the enemy even if as per game mechancis they don't have LOS from action spot to action spot. Ok after thinking about this one more second, I think I was wrong. Cause as I said: if there is no LOS, tehre is no LOF! So even if part of your soldiers in the squad occupe other action spot, enemies can't shoot em if they do not have LOS on your unit action spot. This makes sense for example if you check the 'Urban Ops' thread in Tactics & Strategy. Eventually two soldiers will cross to the action spot in the corner, but neither em or the enmy can't shoot at them until the full squad occupes the corner action spot. Crappy ASCII: Y - enemy squad X - your squad x - individual soldiers of your squad 1)-----| Y No LOS _____| X 2)-----| Y _____| X x No LOS even for the individual soldiers which have passed the corner and should have LOS: hence no LOF 3)-----| Y _____| -----> Xx Full LOS and LOF; when the cnter of your squad (icon) appeirs on the action spot, THEN, and only then there is positive LOS and LOF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 But this would be almost trivial to fix: just activate all action points that are touched by any squad member?!?!?! Such that, as a squad moves along, it touches action spot (1), then *both* (1) and (2), then (2), ... with respective checks ... After all, this is what must happen when the squad splits up for assaulting, no?! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Its even easier...never let a squad be in more than one action spot. It would be even easier if you represented the squad by an icon made up of a few figures that represent the squad, say just three men. That would be perfect! This post was meant to funny... well, not really... yeah it actually was... or was it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 That seems like an easy (well, we don't really know how easy but let's hope) and elegant soplution (not demanding on computers, as 1 or two more action spots for LOS won't be killing anyone; ok multiply for whatever squads, but then people who ahve problems just play smaller scenarios), not only that, it would open up more possibilities on squads formations and positioning (like wider spacing between squad memeber, instead all the guys in 8 meters grid). About assault... that's a good question! I don0't know for sure, but I think the moving guys can't fire, so only the guys in the original action spot do shoot. But I'm almost sure the assaulting men can be shoot even if enemies do not have LOS to the original action spot. Some testing requiered? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Originally posted by Garm: thewood, thanks for your reply. What you say may well be true, although it seemed to me that my unit had clear LOS and LOF. I played the scenario Choke Point which I downloaded from CMMODS. The enemy was a HMG lying downhill and I wanted to return fire with the M2 of a Humvee. Nevertheless, it is frustrating not to be able to return fire without knowing why. Yeah, it seems like we have 15 people guessing at an answer to this, but no way to tell what's really happening. One other thing you mentioned that is a pet peeve of mine, especially as a WEGO player, is lack of firing initiative. I'll darned if I see more 10% of my units fire at infantry on their own at first sight. After 2 or 3 minutes, It may go to less than 50% if the enemy stays in sight. [ September 28, 2007, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: thewood ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 This issue could be a substantial one if the title of the thread was changed to something like "User Feedback from the GUI about targeting and LOS" or "Why can I get a target lock, but not shoot?" meaning: Why are my units seeing something they can't shoot at. If the title of this thread was just a little more directed to the issue being discussed here that might help the "cause" a little bit. hint hint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 We have had a couple threads like that over the last month with little input from anyone who has inside information. They have been in a couple of the forums. So we start one more thread on it and someone comes along and says why are starting another stupid thread on...so a search or sumfink. I feel very negative today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis50 Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 It's Friday Night ..Popcorn, Beer and Pu... Why so negative? Life is good. Just my opinion of course. Regards, Gunz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Are you stalking me. And if you are, are you good looking? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis50 Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 no and no ...sorry Regards, Gunz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 I have TOW as well and you can control each soldier individually. If this is so hard to do, how did they get away with it in Theater of War? Treating all 12 soldiers in one squad as if it were an individual entity leads to some crazy sheeite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 Which is TOW map size limit & unit count limit? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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