FAI Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Mr. Picky would like to point out that the Hetzer was not, a tank. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargol Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Beggining of an albanian omelet recipe We steal two eggs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargol Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 It would be interesting to see an independent Korsikan,Flander,Basque state and for sure united Ireland. As far as the people which are living there are concerned or at least the vast majority of the people. It seems legal to me after the example of Kosovo people to decide about their fate or our freedom values starting and ending in Balkans and in Serbia? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massive1974 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I think Peter's got a point there. It's all about nation-building and the fact that this part of Europe is just decades if not hundreds of years behind. The Irish, the Basques etc have more or less realised that the ship is gone. They've been forcibly melted into some pot or other while ethnic groups in Eastern Europe or the Balkans were still having major issues post-1945. By the way some people tend to describe the WWII period for this part of Europe as a continuation of civil wars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargol Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 The Irish, the Basques etc have more or less realised that the ship is gone But after the Kosovo issue they would have all the right to express their will for independancy and to wait for international support and recognition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bardosy Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 OFF: massive1974, please conntact me in private! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargol Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 What most of the people dont realise is that in the name of freedom they ve just rang the bell for all the countries that include an ethnic minority in their soil to take measures in order to prevent a Kosovo like situation and on the other hand a bell was rang also to the ethnic minorities to set the Kosovar people as an independand example guide. The perfect instabillity recipe.... Now who is going to take profit out of it? Just check the stockmarkets after a while Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massive1974 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Yes, I also think it was a meaningless move. I don't think that it's especially dangerous or anything because it's all up to Russia and the UN and the US. I just can't figure out what the reason was behind this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massive1974 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 "But after the Kosovo issue they would have all the right to express their will for independancy and to wait for international support and recognition." International support and recognition either comes or it doesn't, you can wait for it and count on it till hell freezes over. Doesn't really matter what each minority gets a hard-on on unless SOMEBODY thinks it's a good idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargol Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 The whole United Europe project was too good to be true. With the Kosovo issue and with all the disputes that occured inbetween the European countries it is obvius that the king is naked and Europe is less united than we thought. And another think dont forget that islamic foundamedalism,how we know it today, made its first warsteppes in Bosnia(balkans) where thousands of so called mujahedins took their killing/terrorist diploma in a terrible civil war. Now the same people or at least a part of them are mendoring people how to kill inoccents in Iraq,Afghanistan and in varius places around the globe. Back then also (only)Bosnian Serbs was the face of evil. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCalvert Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 We the people of the greater region of Stockholm declare our independance from the rest of Sweden! And Laponia declares their independance as well. And the region of Skåne in the south too! And then the part of Stockholm where I live declares its independance from the rest of Stockholm... The result? Instead of one fully functional country you get 10 ****ty ones... And besides you´ll never qualify for the EURO or WORLD CUP ever again! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargol Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 International support and recognition either comes or it doesn't, you can wait for it and count on it till hell freezes over. Doesn't really matter what each minority gets a hard-on on unless SOMEBODY thinks it's a good idea. [/QB]So you think that Kosovars were just hoping or waiting for international recognition? Or they were sure that they will receive as much possible support in order to achieve their goals. And another think the whole Kosovo state is a joke with 71% official unemployment no major infastructures,no state income this state either it would be annexed to Albania or it would become the garbage bin,drug producer and the money laundry machine of Europe. In both cases i dont think that freedom and democracy has sthing to do with it. Just check the criminality records for Kosovar Albanians all over Europe and why they are concidered to be the head of ethnic organised crime all over Europe. [ February 21, 2008, 03:12 AM: Message edited by: cargol ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massive1974 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I think the West was too involved in the Kosovo issue (given the war) to back out of this. They couldn't refuse support now since they themselves were bombing on behalf of the Kosovo Albanians. But the real reason...I really don't know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marwek77 aka Red Reporter Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Normal people like we are will never know why... The point is, that someone else from position of power (usually big country) has decided about lives of the others (usualy small country)... And that this decision will for sure lead to destabilization not only in this region! This example can be used now in Palestina, Spain, Ireland, Rumania, Slovakia, Iraq, Ukraine elsewhere around the world. The international law has been violated and very dangerous precedent has been set up! And missing rules will lead to big chaos... much bigger than CM can simulate... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Isn't this situation similar to the attempted secession of 1861 in the U.S.? Food for thought. Regards, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Other than the fact that both events involve attempted secession, not really. The current situation in the Balkans is fundamentally driven by a racial/ethnic divide, and centuries of bad history. The US in 1861 was still a young, growing polyglot nation still defining itself as a society and culture. The empowered elites in both the North and South were largely from the same cultural and ethnic background. They disagreed about what direction the nation should take, and what the socio-economic future should look like, but they did not see each other as belonging to an "other" social/racial group. Talking about the WASP Whites who were largely the ones in power on both sides here. The slaves, of course, are an other issue. But for the most part, the slaves were part of what was being fought about, they weren't the ones declaring war, or (with a few notable exceptions) doing the fighting. And whatever you may think of the Confederacy's reasons for attempting to secede, and whether or not they were right in doing so, a recent history of genocide and brutal repression by the Federal Government was not one of them (not in 1861, anyway. After the war is an other matter...). Well, at least there was no history of such acts by the Federal Government against White Southerners. Native Amercians would have a legitimate beef in this area, but their conflict with the Federal Government did not play a significant part in the Civil War. Regards, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Viljuri Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Maybe Serbians will think twice whether or not to go genociding next time! A petty country Serbia might be, but her war crimes are major. Whether the Serbian state or serbian ethnic paramilitary sponsored, but murdering and ethnic cleansing attempts were a fact all over the former Yugoslavia in the 1990's, so it shouldn't come as a big surprise when Serbian pleas or appeals regarding Kosovo's status are dealt with a well-deserved contempt by the international community. The current state of affairs is clear. No amount of overly pompous Russian or Serbian nationalistic rhetoric will change that. It can only make thing worse for Serbia. The road to respectability and economic prosperity is a long one, for any nation, but for the hot-headed it is an endless one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 In my personal opinion its true that the Serbs lost a lot of their international goodwill during Milosevic's reign. The fact that Mladic isn't extradicted yet, and even supported by many Serbians, adds to it as well. Now I cant say those Kosovars are the nicest people there are, in contrary. But it is understandable they want to live APART from the Serbs. However, this is a subjective view. Not all Serbs are 'bad' people. Even not the ones that support Mladic. They have a different (perhaps wrong, in my opinion) view at the whole case. Untill recently there have lived many Serbs in Kosovo. To save their bare skin they fled away, and now the province declares independence. How would France feel if the Sub urbs arount Paris would declare indepency? What seperates the other minorities in this world who are treated as 2nd class? Perhaps a few more years between the actual conflict then in this case. Anyways, we will see. Altough I im in favour of independent Kosovo, there is no real right or wrong IMHO. There are just 6 billion animals on this world that call themselves 'Human', while most of 'em lack 'humanity' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marwek77 aka Red Reporter Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 I think he says that since A occured B happened. And now C happened, so he's afraid of D, based on the fact that B was bad. A = C and B = D. So we have discussed the Kosovo precedent, so now US reaction to Gruzia story shows true face of US rules We can, but Russia cannot! What will be next? Ukraine? This is quite close to me! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 There are just 6 billion animals on this world that call themselves 'Human', while most of 'em lack 'humanity' Why do people always have to put the human race down? We are what we've evolved/adapted to be, get over the whole "mankind is SO evil, boohoo" thing! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Red_Rage Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Hmm, So Serbia committed bunch of war crimes, while sheepish Albanians, Bosniaks, and Croats were endless victims? Please... War crimes were rampant on all sides, yet only Serbs are persecuted. Biggest mistake Serbs made was not caring what the world thought of them, while other ethnic groups ran active PR campaigns. Kosovo was a cultural and religious center of Serb civilization with over 600 Orthodox chruches there (most of them burned by now), the only reason why Albanians became the majority was Tito's draconian re-population policies post WW2. 50 years later, bunch of migrant workers take the land from indiginious population - how fair is that? Albania (and now Kosovo) is a huge problem for most Europeans, as it is practically a criminal hub and a transit point for most of Aghan heroin going into Europe. Albanian mafia is into some very nasty things (illigal human organ trading, modern slave trade, and is probably the most influencial in Western Europe. State legal system is pretty much a replica of medival clan law with an Islamic twist... Helping a potentially extremist Muslim crime empire in the middle of Europe was one of the "smartest" moves on NATO's side. People need to relax with Ukraine as well. "Orange" has 29 days till it completely rotts and it looks like Timoshenko will be the new President. She also appears to have cut a deal with Kremlin to "freeze" controversial issues - status of Black Sea fleet, persecution of Russian language and etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabal23 Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 There are just 6 billion animals on this world that call themselves 'Human', while most of 'em lack 'humanity' Why do people always have to put the human race down? We are what we've evolved/adapted to be, get over the whole "mankind is SO evil, boohoo" thing! Wow, talk about minimizing the issue. Evolved/adapted? Really? Let me take you some parts of Africa and we can talk about evolution. There has been little to no evolution there. I can take you to many places where evolution/adaptation is not evident at all, if anything, they are in a backwards decline. The advantage of having traveled to some of the most horrible places on earth and coming back to US only further cements in my mind that evolution/adaptation has not occurred. "Evil" in my eyes is a lack of evolution (hence a lack of humanity often times as well) or just being really manipulated by greed/politics/religion/lack of education. To say we have evolved and adapted all the same is ridiculous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 That's only if you presume that evolution/adaptation is a moral and philosophical advancement and not just the continuing mutation, adaptation, and perpetuation of a species, including humans. I have been to some really bad places in the world myself and nothing humans do to each other surprises me anymore. Revolts and disgusts me, yes, surprise, no. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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