Rarely Dismount

[metalbrew]

I'm not really finding great reasons to dismount. I've played 4 missions in the Campaign, all of the included battles, and some quick battles with friends. 99% of the time I creep my vehicles in close and rake the enemy until I can move a bit closer. Infantry is a target in CM:SF and it's not been very useful to dismount.

The exception has been standoff Javelin attacks.

Other that AT missions, I haven't found a fight that compelled me to hop out of the metal boxes.

Thoughts?

[Blackmuzzle]

What about incoming RPGs? A single lucky hit can ruin your day if all your flattops are still in the can. That's the lesson I learned in the first tutorial mission, where I dismounted too late and lost the Stryker and an entire squad.

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by Blackmuzzle:

What about incoming RPGs? A single lucky hit can ruin your day if all your flattops are still in the can. That's the lesson I learned in the first tutorial mission, where I dismounted too late and lost the Stryker and an entire squad.

Anywhere an RPG is hiding they'll be infantry hiding too. Your squad is dead either way, inside or outside the box.

I've completed 4 missions of the Campaign with 5 dead and 10 wounded. Creeping vehicles seems a ton safer than wandering around. Flatten every building with more than 1 unit inside and spend 2-3 turns raking buildings with single units before moving forward.

[Bunyip]

No wonder there's so many civilian deaths in Iraq.

[thewood]

Actually, thats a good point. I thought I had read that civilians were to be included. Without them its just like WW2, recon by fire (really big fire)

[tc237]

Originally posted by Bunyip:

No wonder there's so many civilian deaths in Iraq.

Huh? Why? because someone in a game is "flattening every building"?

stupid comment.

[CRourke]

I wonder if this is a sign that the AI isn't disciplined enough when it comes to holding fire.... I'd think in the real world, enemy inf in hidden positions would wait until a) strykers came in easy rpg range, or infantry dismounted.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by CRourke:

I wonder if this is a sign that the AI isn't disciplined enough when it comes to holding fire.... I'd think in the real world, enemy inf in hidden positions would wait until a) strykers came in easy rpg range, or infantry dismounted.

It's because at present the AI triggers are time activated rather than context sensitive. Not sure how the TacAI does things but it would be difficult to predict when/if enemy infantry were going to dismount. I suppose a bunch of IFVs coming to a dead stop in front of you would be a pretty good clue though, wouldn't it.

The AI does have preset ambush ranges, so you can determine engagement ranges with some rough degree of accuracy. There is no "wait to dismount" order unfortunately.

[thelmia]

That's pretty much how I play all the Combat Missions- use infantry to find the enemy, then destroy it with high explosive. Given the terrain in Syria, infantry are even more vulnerable.

I tend to unload them in the lee of buildings and let them move around inside. Being out in the open is dangerous.

[Michael Dorosh]

I tend to dismount early, but use the smoke dischargers on the Strykers A LOT. Never know when an RPG will kill a vehicle and the men inside it.

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by thelmia:

I tend to unload them in the lee of buildings and let them move around inside. Being out in the open is dangerous.

Being inside buildings is only marginally safer than being in the open. There's no concept of hunker down and seek cover inside buildings, even with the 'hide' command and very short cover arcs units are easily spotted in buildings. Small arms fire easily perforates heavy buildings (this seems to be a big bug actually, we'll see where this stands after the next round of patches) and human players will area fire the building to the ground.

It's safer to stay in the AFV and pummel the enemy from afar with little risk to yourself.

[cow_cookie]

I use my infantry as really high powered tank decoys. They'll scout around for tanks with an M1 lurking behind. When they find one, they can usually get off a javelin in time to kill it. Meanwhile, the M1 will roll up to finish off any remaining tanks since Syrian tanks tend to roam in packs.

[thelmia]

Originally posted by metalbrew:

Being inside buildings is only marginally safer than being in the open.

It's safer to stay in the AFV and pummel the enemy from afar with little risk to yourself.

Yeah, I've noticed that.

[jomni]

There should be negative points for collateral damage. I think they should include that in mission objectives... not just friendly casualty tolerance.

POA2 models that. It places civilians per square km of the map and if you recklessly fire artillery, killed civilians will affect your score.

[thewood]

That is a great point. I hope someone at BFC looks at POA2 for assymmetrical warfare. They do it very well and the military uses it for planning in new weapons.

[jomni]

Just don't copy the whole game and make it 3D.

POA2 is a commander simulation (you won't see the frontline fighting) and CMSF is not like that. Just learn from some features.

[thewood]

I had mentioned in another thread how it eventuall becomes like work.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by jomni:

There should be negative points for collateral damage. I think they should include that in mission objectives... not just friendly casualty tolerance.

Have you looked in the scenario editor?

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by jomni:

There should be negative points for collateral damage. I think they should include that in mission objectives... not just friendly casualty tolerance.

I'd be OK with that. For now, under these rules, I'm leaving everywhere I visit looking like a smoking crater though.

[jomni]

Ah yes! Why didn't I think of that. You can give the attacker the objective of preventing the destruction of the buildings in the Mission Editor.

[thewood]

Missed that too! That is great. Every Scenario should have that.