Assault on Taleban stronghold underway

[Bigduke6]

Me, I'm just getting tired of decisive battles where an important part of the Taliban is all cornered and can't get away.

How often can you announce the impending destruction of an important part of a terrorist organization, before some one else is allowed to suggest you're not destroying jack?

:confused: .......

Those durn Pathans, don't they know they're beaten and defeated by a force massively superior to them in training, firepower, cost to the taxpayer, and stylish eyewear?

:mad: :mad: :mad: ......... :confused:

[skelley]

I love how the article tells that we will commence the final assault tonight. Perhaps they can give the Taliban the precise time and direction of the attack.

[Other Means]

Originally posted by skelley:

I love how the article tells that we will commence the final assault tonight. Perhaps they can give the Taliban the precise time and direction of the attack.

I imagine the arty would give it away.

[Barleyman]

Originally posted by Leopard II:

Yes, of course. No lend-lease program etc for the UK and USSR, and it is likely that Third Reich would have won the war. Well, I guess that wouldn't be better, since a black uniform doesn't suits me well...

Ahem.

Not much lend-lease going on in -41, pardner. And in 42 it didn't look so good for nazi scum, at all. If you want to take credit for something, try the obvious lack of red square in Paris (whatever the liberty fries people would tell you)

References? Well, how about Manstein, the old peace-lowing flower-sniffing hippy suggested in -42 that it'd be reeeeally good time to start negotiating peace with the bolshevic scum..

[MikoyanPT]

Originally posted by skelley:

What were the Brits thinking in trying to negotiate with the Taliban in the first place. Now the US has to go and retake it. If ya ask me the Brits should have to do it, they gave it away.

Or they (the brits) could pack their things and go home were they are warm and safe instead of walking around in a desert getting shot at.

In fact they had theyr experience in getting busted out of Afganistan, it had been their colony you know, and it went bad for them.

So i guess you should be apreciative of your allies and friends intead of making they look bad.

The poles are going home, the aussies are going home. And you can bet the british public opinion wants their boys home.

[Cpl Steiner]

In some ways, isn't it better for us if we vacate a town, let the Taleban take it over, and then come back and wipe them all out? I mean, how often do we get the chance to surround large numbers of Taleban and have a full-on conventional battle with them?

Now I think of it, we should try this more often.

[MikoyanPT]

Originally posted by skelley:

I love how the article tells that we will commence the final assault tonight. Perhaps they can give the Taliban the precise time and direction of the attack.

That should be the first surprise attack in history preceded with airdrops of warning leaflets.

[MikoyanPT]

Originally posted by Cpl Steiner:

In some ways, isn't it better for us if we vacate a town, let the Taleban take it over, and then come back and wipe them all out? I mean, how often do we get the chance to surround large numbers of Taleban and have a full-on conventional battle with them?

Now I think of it, we should try this more often.

Excellent idea !

However i am not sure if the civilians in the area have the same opinion.

Civilians often have the inclination to consider having their homes destroyed and their lives in peril an rather unpleasent experience.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Cpl Steiner:

In some ways, isn't it better for us if we vacate a town, let the Taleban take it over, and then come back and wipe them all out? I mean, how often do we get the chance to surround large numbers of Taleban and have a full-on conventional battle with them?

Now I think of it, we should try this more often.

I dunno. Based on what I've learned, that's roughly akin to what we did in Vietnam, and what Russia did in Afghanistan, and it worked very poorly in both wars. If you let the enemy retake and entrench areas, it costs friendly and civilian casualties every time you go in and push them out.

I'm thinking it's not a very good way to win the public opinion fight at home OR in the country of interest... and if you're losing the public opinion fight in the country of interest, chances are you're increasing recruitment for the guerrillas.

[hammelman]

BigDuke6 hit the nail right on the head with his post. Havent we heard this story before? As if one town will determine the fate of the now almost 6 year old insurgency. When the war is won then you can celebrate and ooh-aww and thump your chest. Until that time, its just another operation with a silly name like "White Lighting" that accomplishes little. I'm figuring the body count will be in the mid 30's if everything goes as it always does.

Regarding the what if scenario's about WWII. It happened the way it happened, countries did what they needed to do, Nazism failed, Communism swallowed Eastern Europe, and the West saved itself. There should be no hard feelings, or what if's. Things had to be done for the *greater good* and thats how it goes.

[skelley]

Or they (the brits) could pack their things and go home were they are warm and safe instead of walking around in a desert getting shot at.

In fact they had theyr experience in getting busted out of Afganistan, it had been their colony you know, and it went bad for them.

So i guess you should be apreciative of your allies and friends intead of making they look bad.

The poles are going home, the aussies are going home. And you can bet the british public opinion wants their boys home

I do appreciate our allies for what they have done, but that doesn't mean I can't be critical of stupid decisions, and this is clearly a stupid one. You can't negotiate with people like this. They saw peoples' heads off with dull knives for converting religions!

As for them going home, they can if they want. As far as I am concerned our allies aren't doing enough there anyway, to end a threat to all western civilized nations. Most aren't even engaging in combat. I will bet anything that if that if it were a Nato ally that lost 3000 people on that day the US would still be doing most of the heavy lifting (and I would not be against this).

[DaveDash]

Careful where you go with this Skelley. The Canadians for example are taking far more of the brunt of the fighting than the U.S. in Afghanistan at the moment.

But yes, some allies are there just for show.

[Martin Krejcirik]

Looks like the coalition is back to square one...

November 2, 2006 - The Taliban Return to Musa Qala

... The Times Online reports Musa Qala has now fallen back into the hands of the Taliban. Nafaz Khan, the former chief of police of Musa Qala who fought along with the British of the Royal Irish Regiment, said the negotiations to turn Musa Qala over to 'local tribesmen' was just a ruse.

"Those British soldiers were cursing with us when we were all told to leave... They said that they had fought and lost friends to keep the town. And now these tribal elders who are in charge of Musa Qala are the same who gave the Taliban support when they fought against us. The deal was just a clever trick to get the foreign soldiers to go.” ...

edit: Musa Quala chronology

[ December 07, 2007, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Martin Krejcirik ]

[MikoyanPT]

Originally posted by DaveDash:

But yes, some allies are there just for show.

Yes the portuguese uniforms are quite fancy.

Thank you.

But the men we lost in that roadbomb, or the gunner wo died last week when their armored hummvee rolled over are still quite dead. I bet most of the people in this forum don´t knew the portuguese army was fighting (and dying in afghanistan) but they are and without glamourous media coverage.

Small and poor countries contribut as possible.

For instance i saw the danes pull out amazing feats of bravery. And the canadians, the poles, the scots, the new zealanders,australians the spanyards, the italians, the germans, the french... and so on, all of them took casualties. Respect.

Let´s face it, war is a bitch !

[bodkin]

"The poles are going home, the aussies are going home. And you can bet the british public opinion wants their boys home"

The Aussies are staying in Afghanistan but they are just starting their final deployment to Iraq.

[MikoyanPT]

Originally posted by bodkin:

The Aussies are staying in Afghanistan but they are just starting their final deployment to Iraq.

Thank you for the correction.

Didn´t knew they would keep their deployment in afghanistan.

Brave lads the australians hehe

[skelley]

Careful where you go with this Skelley. The Canadians for example are taking far more of the brunt of the fighting than the U.S. in Afghanistan at the moment.

But yes, some allies are there just for show.

I am talking mainly about the allies that refuse to get involved in combat, and I am not talking about the soldiers, but the leaders. The soldiers can always be caught in an ambush.

[DaveDash]

The Aussies are staying in Iraq but removing their combat forces.

MikoyanPT - every countries sacrifice is appreciated. I come from New Zealand, so I remember to appreciate the efforts of those countries who can't contribute as much. However, the Portuguese are doing more than some larger countries out there who want to jump on the "We're in Afghanistan!" gravy train without any of the hard work.

[hammelman]

People like Skelley with their "You can't negotiate with people like this." kind of make me want to throw my hands up in the air and scream. Sadly you have this victim complex about Sept 11th. and you will never be able to live it down. You can't kill them all, there arent enough bullets in the world to kill all the bad people in the night. Eventually there will be negotiation - or there would be perpetual fighting for the rest of eternity. There is ALWAYS room for negotiation, for instance we can use the Sunni's in Iraq as a perfect example. The Sunni have started making strategic alliances with the American troops in their region to help rid them of Al Queda in Iraq. These are the same people who killed untold numbers of their fellow countrymen, in horrible ways. Yet.... there is room for negotiation. All the end timers out there are so thoroughly confused as to the root cause of all this evil, they only see evil, they dont see the humanity behind it.

Edited the second paragraph because he clarified himself.

[ December 07, 2007, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: hammelman ]

[skelley]

I am talking about Al Queda and Taliban types. Read my posts. I never said you can't negotiate with Muslims! You can't negotiate with people that want you dead more than they want to live. I am happy we are dealing with the Sunnis, they just wanted to go back to the status quo of them ruling Iraq. But they got tired of the murderous thugs known as Al Queda. The Taliban have the same ideology as Al Queda.

Sadly you have this victim complex about Sept 11th. and you will never be able to live it down.

Thanks for the therapy. You may not be able to kill them all but you can kill a lot of them and hopefully as in Iraq, the Afgans get tired of these thugs.

[ December 07, 2007, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: skelley ]

[Cpl Steiner]

Originally posted by skelley:

I will bet anything that if that if it were a Nato ally that lost 3000 people on that day the US would still be doing most of the heavy lifting (and I would not be against this).

Historically, you might want to read about a little thing called "The Blitz". Americans were quite happy to watch Londoners being bombed night after night without lifting a finger to help. So much for your theory.

[hammelman]

skelley i didnt say you said anything about Muslims... I just followed your train of thought to its rightful conclusion. Just because they have very gory methods of getting things done, do you really for one moment believe the psychos that are convinced that these people dont have an agenda other than this ridiculous notion of a world wide Caliphate? Of course they have another agenda, what it is i havent the slighest clue. Sure you could quote the Quran and tell me it's in their bible, but i'm sure i could bring up some stuff from the bible that is equally bad.

The real crazies who believe that they have to kill all the infidels are the ones who die first, and they die the most and i agree we should let them - there is no place in this world for them. This notion that there is no negotiation is ludicrous. Eventually they or us will give in and things will go back to status quo until the next incident. Its just a matter of how many people have to be culled first to stop the craziness.

[skelley]

It was a different time then. Europe had much larger armies back then while we didn't have a world power level of military. I am not going to defend the US staying out of the early war. My father wasn't even born yet so I had no say in the mater. Maybe if we had gotten in after the invasion of Poland it would have ended sooner and with less death and destruction.

[skelley]

The real crazies who believe that they have to kill all the infidels are the ones who die first, and they die the most and i agree we should let them - there is no place in this world for them. This notion that there is no negotiation is ludicrous. Eventually they or us will give in and things will go back to status quo until the next incident. Its just a matter of how many people have to be culled first to stop the craziness.

Raise your hand if you think the Taliban can ever be trusted. My hand remains down. And I wonder how many citizens were executed when the Taliban retook the town.

[aka_tom_w]

I think there is an issue here that is somewhat unspoken. I agree with skelley, and I would like to suggest one of the problems here is intolerance and religious fundamentalism.

Not all Mulsims, that's not the problem the problem is radical fundamentalism and I agree with skelley:

You can't negotiate with people that want you dead more than they want to live.

When suicide attacks are considered by the enemy as a legitimate tactic because they want you and all your "kind" dead more then then want to live, there is a problem and the solution does not include trust or communication or negotiation.

The only words I can think of go something like this:

"Terminate with extreme predjudice."

[ December 07, 2007, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]