Deadly assaults

[Egoiste]

I have got a certain experience that my infantry are always down when charging enemy houses.

When i use "assault", the squad splits and enemy chews it one by one. I see that there is no covering fire, when my entry team gets in. That is why it can be killed even by an enemy RPG-team...

What tactics should i use, "fast"?

[ May 15, 2008, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Egoiste ]

[handihoc]

How far from the target are you when assaulting? It generally works well for me from fairly close quarters - max 50 metres, say. Teams move forward, with their squadmates providing covering fire.

Of course, you ideally need at least one other squad or a vehicle laying down suppressive fire. If the enemy is fully capable, it will obviously shoot your men down as they approach. Smoke helps too, and try to come from a direction different to that which you know the enemy is facing.

Even then, it's quite possible that even a single enemy soldier, hiding indoors, will do your guys a lot of damage. I've had it happen. Assault is never a certainty.

Hunt command can be an alternative option. That way at least your men will stop moving and hit the dirt as soon as they spot an enemy shooter. The problem there can be that they'll spot an enemy, say, three hundred metres away from the target building, and still stop moving.

Fast is no good, as your guys won't defend themselves. Fast is best used for quickly crossing streets or running short distances to cover.

[Thomm]

I know you want a better answer, but make sure that you have as much suppression fire as possible!

Then I usually use Quick to rush in, but I do not know if this is optimal.

Remember: a single squad is supposed to be attacked by a whole platoon (at least this is what a Major friend of mine told me).

Best regards,

Thomm

[TheVulture]

The (BIG imho) weakness of the assault command is that the overwatch element of the squad doesn't do suppressive area fire, and so only reacts after any defenders have shot at the assaulting unit, which is often too late to save them. Then couple that with the fact that the suppression state is shared by the whole squad, and in bad cases the overwatch element which takes no fire can get pinned and unable to fire back while the assault element gets killed.

You can get better behaviour by splitting the squads before hand, and charging one in with 'quick' while the others have cover arcs or area fire commands. (Cover arcs don't solve the first problem, but then that's probably realistic, but does solve the 'overwatch gets suppressed' problem).

But as Thomm says, the best solution is to have a whole platoon blow the hell out of the place before the point squad goes rushing in. Made easier by the fact that small arms area fire can't cause friendly casualties, so you can keep suppression on until way after the last realistic moment.

[Egoiste]

Well, tnx for replies,

My general way in charging a small enemy unit (RPG or sniper) is:

a stryker with 12.7 stops at 30 meters (the closer distance is dangerous because of enemy hand grenades through the windows) and begins shooting the main door. After that it pops a smoke to make the squad safe to disembark and charge.

A distance of 50m is dangerous because of possible flanking MG fire; then, the stryker cannot cover my entry team with smoke at this range.

Hmm, its under my skin, that the general army tactics in clearing the barricaded room (with no civies) begins with a throw of grenade why the covering team does not provide MG fire at front wall, and why the entry team does not throw a grenade..?

OK, thanx a lot, i'll try to clear this issue with different ways and post the results

[Moon]

It should be kept in mind that close quarters fighting is lethal, no matter what. One fanatic Red soldier with an AK can do a lot of damage with just a lucky burst. Tactics can help minimize casualties but won't avoid them.

What I do:

- suppressive fire. Focus as many shooters as you can on a building you want to enter.

- Start with explosive stuff, but don't forget to call it off on time - you don't want to hurt your own guys. Keep up a stream of small arms fire though.

- "park" your assault squad or team in front of the entrance on the outside of the building first. If you dash inside after a 50m sprint, don't be surprised if they are not as effective.

- For the entrance itself, I use "Hunt". Quick and certainly Fast tend to give your guys tunnel vision and can make it harder for them to spot enemy inside until it's too late.

- Another good way I found effective is to use the Blast command and enter not through a door, but through a wall. The blast has the positive side effect of automatically suppressing anyone inside for some time (there were various tweaks to how this works in the recent patches from what I recall).

But I don't think there is one correct way to do it. Everyone develops his own best tactic. Probably the safest of them all is: avoid entering buildings held by the enemy, and blast them to pieces

Martin

[Thomm]

Anybody tried Area Fire from the point squad from a few meters in front of the building? Probably makes them throw those pre-entry grenades.

Said Major also told me, that the preferred method of entering a building is to blow in the wall of the first, most exposed room with HE, and then proceed deeper into the building.

Best regards,

Thomm

[slug88]

Originally posted by Egoiste:

why the covering team does not provide MG fire at front wall, and why the entry team does not throw a grenade..?

Um, they can, just give them a light fire order on the building before the assault move, they'll do exactly as you describe.

[Dragon67]

Assault works very well for me when I pop smoke first. Assaulting a building is always foolish if you are in LOS from another enemy postion or do not have 2 to 1 force against the target.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

The Assault command works fine if you just give them area fire orders. The covering team will suppress the enemy inside the building while the rest of your guys move in. Of course, it is always better to have multiple suppressing squads, smoke, blasting, etc. as everyone is saying . . .

-FMB

[Childress]

Originally posted by TheVulture:

Made easier by the fact that small arms area fire can't cause friendly casualties, so you can keep suppression on until way after the last realistic moment.

That's right. Much more of a factor in this version of the engine than previous ones because of the urban settings and the often elevated fire platforms. As a realism issue to be resolved, I'd put it up there with Borg spotting.

[Paper Tiger]

My 2 cents worth...

Since I've been playing Red on Red exclusively for the last six moinths, I've had to learn some lessons the hard way. I've lost a whole platoon assaulting one small single tile single storey building so many times that I can't do it anymore.

I always use HUNT to gain intel on the enemy positions. Hunting in cover is quite safe most of the time. Once I know a house or building is occupied (or even if I strongly suspect that it might be), I'll do the following...

Before assaulting ANY building, I will prep fire that area with everything I've got before moving in on it. That will include tanks, BMPs as well as the organic RPGs. Once the building has been thoroughly clobbered, THEN I'll send in a solitary assault team while his platoon mates area fire light on their target. It might look and sound like overkill but modern era combat is so lethal that it's the only way to do it without risking losing every man in that assualting squad. Doing it this way usually results in ZERO casualties for the Syrian side. I'd imagine it would be equally effective playing from the US side.

BTW, I uploaded a mission to CMMODS last weekend called 'Hill 142' that will give you the opportunity to try all this out playing as the Republican Guards against some rebel Syrian mech units.

[Egoiste]

Originally posted by slug88:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Egoiste:

why the covering team does not provide MG fire at front wall, and why the entry team does not throw a grenade..?

Um, they can, just give them a light fire order on the building before the assault move, they'll do exactly as you describe. </font>