Syrian sniper rifles

[rudel.dietrich]

I know the answer to this before I even post it.

But I might as well throw it out there.

I know the base SVD is going to be modeled.

And in 95% of cases the weapon will work.

But based on my findings, the Syrian airborne and special forces field a host of other rifles.

Some are not true sniper rifles but serve in the sniper role.

Various bolt action rifles

H&K G-3/SG-1

SG-550s

SG-552

I know that just adds alot of work for little gain, but the US gets various sniper rifles modeled.

So why not the other side?

[Battlefront.com]

Rudel,

I know that just adds alot of work for little gain, but the US gets various sniper rifles modeled.

So why not the other side?

You gotta look at the total weapons modeled. If you do that, the Syrians are way out in front

US

M9

M4

M249

M240B

M110 SASS

M107

Syrian

Makarov

AKM

AKS

RPD

RPK

AK-74

AKS-74

AKS-74U

RPK-74

PKM

NVS

SVD

That's 2:1 in favor of the Syrians already. Each weapon added is quite a bit of work for us. Adding another one or two is certainly possible, but if it is just used by a handful of guys... it's really a very poor use of our time. Obscure, but relevant, stuff can be added to Modules.

As for Sniper Rifles specifically, note that we are not simulating the M14 (stock or modified) or M24. We are simply simulating the standard issue weapons and not highly uncommon stuff. That means you'll see the M110 in EVERY battle and the M107 in probably the majority. The same can be said of the SVD, but not something like the G3. Further, the M110 and M107 share nothing in common in terms of capabilities, so it isn't a choice between one or the other. The limited use non-Soviet weapons you cited are, from CM's perspective, just about the same as each other. The game difference between a SG 550 and G3 are negligable.

In a perfect world we'd put in everything, including MP-5s and whatever else might be used in small numbers. But this is a highly flawed world and we can only do so much.

Steve

[ November 14, 2006, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ]

[akd]

Unless the Syrian special forces have a signficant inventory of very long-range sniper rifles (i.e. .50 BMG, .338 Lapua, etc.), I can't see the relevance of other systems.

[Battlefront.com]

Exactly While there are definite differences between a Western European style 7.62 rifle and either the AK family or the SVD, it isn't dramatic like between the M110 and M107. The M110 is dramatically different than the M24, but we are not including the latter because if they are still in use in 2007/2008 they will definitely be dwarfed by the M110.

Steve

[MikeyD]

Wow, not only no 'unofficial' 7.62mm M14s, but no M16s either? Not a big surprise but a surprise.

In earlier sniper threads there was mention (and confirmation) of silenced M4 being used by the 2nd security man in the sniper team. Theoretically in the game that could decrease the sound 'footprint' on a sniper team when stumbled upon. Will the silenced M4 make it in? The biggest pain might simply be rounding up a sample sound of a silenced M4 being fired - though I did locate one being fired on Youtube a week or two ago

[Battlefront.com]

No Stryker guy has the M16, so that reduces our desire to have them. Mech Infantry is pretty much all standardized on the M4 now too. Sure, there are a few straggler units here and there, but we aren't simulating a broad front so we can justfy M4 only by saying the one or two units without the M16 aren't in the player's area of ops. But there is no need for that since by the time CM:SF is to take place all will have the M4. You'll see the M16 when we put Marines in.

We're not sure about the silenced M4 and how standard it is. Putting that in would be easy since it is a simple model addition, a muffled sound, and a spotting variable tweak. No new model, no new animation, no new sound, and no new behavior required.

Steve

[Cpl Steiner]

Forgive me for asking but is it not the case that the USMC is always "behind" other US units in allocation of new gear? In Vietnam, for instance, they had the M14 for quite a while after most other units had switched to the M16. I also remember reading some Vietnam book, can't remember which, in which the author pointed out that the USMC always seemed to get the most out-dated kit in the entire US armed forces.

Was this the case in Vietnam? If so, does the USMC suffer from the same allocation problems now, or do they actually prefer the M16?

[flamingknives]

AIUI, the USMC use the M16A4, which is just as modern as the M4, with all the shiny rails to put shiny kit on so as to make the rifle as heavy as possible. Or somefink. ISTR that some of the Marines on the board mentioned that ACOGs were widely distributed too.

[akd]

Originally posted by Cpl Steiner:

Forgive me for asking but is it not the case that the USMC is always "behind" other US units in allocation of new gear? In Vietnam, for instance, they had the M14 for quite a while after most other units had switched to the M16. I also remember reading some Vietnam book, can't remember which, in which the author pointed out that the USMC always seemed to get the most out-dated kit in the entire US armed forces.

Was this the case in Vietnam? If so, does the USMC suffer from the same allocation problems now, or do they actually prefer the M16?

USMC chose to stick with the M16A4 for riflemen. (How can they be riflemen first with carbines? )

[ November 15, 2006, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: akd ]

[Battlefront.com]

Correct. The USMC conducted tests a while back when they were looking to replace their aging small arms and decided that they would stick to the M16 family by opting for the M16A4 over the M4. Interestingly, the Army chose the exact opposite path. Other nations that were centered on the M16 are also going the M4 route.

Steve

[Homo ferricus]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Correct. The USMC conducted tests a while back when they were looking to replace their aging small arms and decided that they would stick to the M16 family by opting for the M16A4 over the M4. Interestingly, the Army chose the exact opposite path. Other nations that were centered on the M16 are also going the M4 route.

Steve

during that same questioning of the replacement of old stuff in the Marine Corps., they also looked for a new camo pattern, and apparently tiger stripe came out first, until the digital pattern from Canada was tested, and actually, they recently came up with a digital tiger stripe pattern. but i digress from the point...

i think that i recently saw a pic of a US soldier w/ a red dot scope on his M4, instead of the standard aimpoint (gosh, the army sure does like red dots).

[akd]

Originally posted by Homo ferricus:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Correct. The USMC conducted tests a while back when they were looking to replace their aging small arms and decided that they would stick to the M16 family by opting for the M16A4 over the M4. Interestingly, the Army chose the exact opposite path. Other nations that were centered on the M16 are also going the M4 route.

Steve

during that same questioning of the replacement of old stuff in the Marine Corps., they also looked for a new camo pattern, and apparently tiger stripe came out first, until the digital pattern from Canada was tested, and actually, they recently came up with a digital tiger stripe pattern. but i digress from the point...

i think that i recently saw a pic of a US soldier w/ a red dot scope on his M4, instead of the standard aimpoint (gosh, the army sure does like red dots). </font>

[Battlefront.com]

Air Force also played around with a traditional tiger stripe pattern. The Navy has also formally announced that they are going to a digital type camouflage too, though the details are not clear. They trialed a pattern last year so we're assuming it is that one and not the Marine's.

Steve

[rudel.dietrich]

I have a very cool picture of a Syria SF operator leaning over the lip of a rooftop doing security overwatch in Lebanon with a SG-550 with a huge scope.

His spotter looks to have a heavily modifying MP-5

I wish I could post it here but I would get in trouble

I can clearly see what looks to be body armour that can at least stop high powered pistol rounds

Knee pads, elbow pads and a kevlar helmet round out the deal.

I could not see the boots.

It is a black and white photo but the uniform and armour look dark grey/black from head to toe.

I can see a radio attached to one mans chest and looks like a ear/mouth piece by his helmet.

Pistols and various knick knacks hang all over the uniform.

What could be NV googles hang from one mans neck.

Very cool photo

[Homo ferricus]

Originally posted by akd:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Homo ferricus:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Correct. The USMC conducted tests a while back when they were looking to replace their aging small arms and decided that they would stick to the M16 family by opting for the M16A4 over the M4. Interestingly, the Army chose the exact opposite path. Other nations that were centered on the M16 are also going the M4 route.

Steve

during that same questioning of the replacement of old stuff in the Marine Corps., they also looked for a new camo pattern, and apparently tiger stripe came out first, until the digital pattern from Canada was tested, and actually, they recently came up with a digital tiger stripe pattern. but i digress from the point...

i think that i recently saw a pic of a US soldier w/ a red dot scope on his M4, instead of the standard aimpoint (gosh, the army sure does like red dots). </font>

[akd]

Originally posted by Homo ferricus:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by akd:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Homo ferricus:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Correct. The USMC conducted tests a while back when they were looking to replace their aging small arms and decided that they would stick to the M16 family by opting for the M16A4 over the M4. Interestingly, the Army chose the exact opposite path. Other nations that were centered on the M16 are also going the M4 route.

Steve

during that same questioning of the replacement of old stuff in the Marine Corps., they also looked for a new camo pattern, and apparently tiger stripe came out first, until the digital pattern from Canada was tested, and actually, they recently came up with a digital tiger stripe pattern. but i digress from the point...

i think that i recently saw a pic of a US soldier w/ a red dot scope on his M4, instead of the standard aimpoint (gosh, the army sure does like red dots). </font>