How is the single player?

[Michael Dorosh]

The demo only lets you play multiplayer. Can anyone comment on how the game performs in single player?

[Bnej]

Performs good.

From what I've played of campaign, it's pretty rough around the edges. The victory conditions can be a real pain, though the gameplay is pretty good. The main problem for me at the moment is if you finish the conditions early, you still have to wait out the clock to finish the level.

Standalone games are good fun though, but essentially what you play in multiplayer but vs AI only with no lag.

[Moon]

Bnej, have you see a post from Clay who explains that after you get the victory screen, you can simply quit the mission?

Martin

[MaitreCs]

Anyone else get annoyed by vehicles operating underwater?

[Ithai]

I think the underwater feature could be quite handy in multi player games. The single player is the most satisfying I've had in a long time. To me this is real time combat mission in the future. Thats a good thing because I've not been able to run combat mission for a very long time since I switched from os 9 to os 10.

[Caseck]

Originally posted by MaitreCs:

Anyone else get annoyed by vehicles operating underwater?

What's annoying about that? They aren't airbreathers.

Aside from 120mm main-guns working there, which would be weird. I haven't tried that yet though.

[MaitreCs]

That was most of what I meant - projectile weapons work under water. I'm a little skeptical about the vehicles travelling under water, too, but firing volleys under the water in the first SP mission just seems really odd.

[ClaytoniousRex]

Since we've agreed in so many previous discussions that these systems are feasible in various atmospheres ranging from vacuum to high pressure, being underwater is not very much to ask of them. This is assuming, as discussed in so many of those old threads on these forums, that the systems are implemented properly (you're not simply taking a modern day 120mm gun and dropping it in the water and hoping it works).

[GrognardFortyPlus]

Originally posted by ClaytoniousRex:

Since we've agreed in so many previous discussions that these systems are feasible in various atmospheres ranging from vacuum to high pressure, being underwater is not very much to ask of them. This is assuming, as discussed in so many of those old threads on these forums, that the systems are implemented properly (you're not simply taking a modern day 120mm gun and dropping it in the water and hoping it works).

That may be true, but it seems pretty clear the projectiles get all their kinetic energy during the explosive (or whatever) firing process. I can accept the futuristic weapons being internally capable of supplying the necessary combustion (or whatever) to achieve the acceleration of the shell. Firing in a fluid environment is not a problem. The problem involves fluid dynamics interaction between projectile and environment. If changes in atmospheric pressure can affect the projectile, then the introduction of a fluid environment will have signicant effects on the projectile. If shells are travelling through a fluid it begs the question, what model is being used in the fluid environment and how does it reconcile against vapor environments?

[Seymour]

You really shouldn't be able to shoot high-velocity kinetic weapons underwater. Water doesn't compress well and would stop any round within a few meters. Hey, I saw it on "Mythbusters" so it has to be true.

I can see allowing lasers and missle launchers under water, but only if the lasers are tuned to blue-green, I read that one in the old "Boat Wars" game by Steve Jackson, so it has to be true, too.

Otherwise, you can just say the fluid isn't water, just some non-energy absorbing fluid with water mimicing properties.

[Toby Haynes]

Originally posted by Seymour:

You really shouldn't be able to shoot high-velocity kinetic weapons underwater. Water doesn't compress well and would stop any round within a few meters. Hey, I saw it on "Mythbusters" so it has to be true.

Following up on this, there are two types of projectile that might make more sense under water. The first is a torpedo-style projectile with water-screw or water-jet propulsion, either with or without guidance. This could be fired along a barrel but would probably use a jet of water to get the speed up if already immersed or, if fired in air, would describe a parabola until it hit the water and then would kick in it's propulsion unit.

The second unit is a form of depth charge. Fired like a normal projectile, it would effectively stop when it made contact with the water and would drop vertically through the water before exploding, possibly on contact with the base of the river/lake.

How does that sound? It would not require any great changes to the existing units, just new ammo types and behaviour.

As for Ion beams under water, I think they would quickly scatter and attenuate over distance, making them useless unless you were pressed up close to your target. I also suspect that they would boil the water along the line of sight but I'd have to sit down and think about the scattering process.

Cheers,

Toby Haynes

[cwmark]

Wouldn't firing something that superheated cause a steam explosion at the muzzle-end of the weapon?

Not to mention the stream of bubbles and rising steam on the water's surface. A dead giveaway of your position one would think. Since this combat environment is the 'if you can see it - you can kill it' variety.

[cwmark]

Regarding the single player campaign - since I'm now a 'made-man-in-the-clan' I would love to see more of the backstory the designers have in store for us.

Maybe some personal RPGish elements perhaps?

Promotion, medals, more units available to select from, picture of your recent wife (Lord Hartford's niece) perhaps? Replacing the old Lord himself and becoming clan leader?

Would love to see a strategic or operational campaign system set in this universe. We can resolve the planet 'shoot & loot' assaults in DT.

Some nitpicking:

The scenario time limit seems too artificial a gimmick to force a player to do something - beyond waiting & camping a hill and sniping everything he sees with his 120mm.

Whoever heard of a anti-matter engine that lasted 25 minutes? I'm assuming this because the vehicles can submarine at will.

[yllamana]

I wanted to comment on the writing. The plot, as far as I've gone so far in the single player (only the plot in the story - not commenting on the backstory), isn't too deep, but the writing is really good and a definite breath of fresh air when many developers these days seem to think that a pulse is sufficient qualification for writing story material.

(in Briefing - Forsaken: "scienfitic" and "abandonded" - oops)

I'm having trouble with getting the bots to do what I want them to. Also, it's really lacking polish - the scoreboard looks the same as in multiplayer, and after each map it just throws you back to the main menu screen.

Still, the difficulty (with the default of oh-my-goodness-it's-so-easy-I-can't-believe-you're-playing-it) seems adjustable enough that everyone should be able to play through and enjoy it, adjusting it if needed for clanmate stupidity and your own skill level.

Performance is fine for me so far, maybe a touch slower than multiplayer. No guarantee it'll be fine in later missions though.

[Paul Snively]

I got off to a slow start, frankly, and at first I was wondering if I'd made a mistake in my purchase. I stuck it out for the first few missions, though, and I'm really, really glad I did. For some reason, without the manual (I bought the download), I just couldn't intuitively get what I was supposed to do on that first mission, and so the game seemed very problematic to me. Now that I have a better sense of how to command my team, about dropping, finding good places/times to resupply, and so on, I actually deleted my campaign and started over... and at a higher difficulty level.

I also jumped into a Capture the Flag game with my little bit of hard-earned knowledge. Wow, what fun that is! Can't wait until there are servers with a dozen or so humans on them!

I can already see that this is going to be unbelievably addictive...

[Paul Snively]

BTW, on one mission, the one where you have to fight your way to the Galaxy in the mountains above Hope City, I was driving one of the little fast vehicles—a Paladin, I think—and I went way too fast and rolled it, destroying my ATMG. I thought, "shucks, that's bad, but at least I'm OK." I continued tooling along the rode, and a few seconds later, the entire vehicle disintegrated, parts flying everywhere!

I laughed out loud. What you guys have done with ODE and OpenSceneGraph is pure genius.

[Paul Snively]

"Rode?" Long day. Try "road."

[76mm]

So is all single-player action in a scripted campaign, or are there stand-alone scenarios (a al CM) as well? And how is the AI?

[dan/california]

There are multiple stand alone single player game modes that can be played on multiple maps. There is a lot of variety.

[Paul Snively]

OK, I got the manual in hand, and started over with the campaign on the third difficulity bar after having read it. I just finished the 2nd mission, forget what it's called, but the defense one. Since I've now read the manual, I actually knew to do stuff like use my artillery while sneaking out to establish LOS. I also found that EMP works, and frequent extraction/reinsertion is a godsend.

Anyway, after many false starts, I finally won at this difficulty level. And it was a BLAST. Now I can't wait to play some more multiplayer after having read the manual, and now that I have a beginner's feel for using the support options and extraction/insertion!

Congratulations on an awesome game, gentlemen. Very nicely done.

[tankibanki]

I'm still having problems with mission one. Have tried it at least 10 times so far without success on the easiest level (embarrassing). In multiplayer I'm doing quite ok, I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong in single player.

Anyway I'll keep on trying a couple of times before asking specific questions.

[ClaytoniousRex]

Are you getting defeated, tanki, or do you think you're encountering some kind of bug that's preventing you from winning?

[tankibanki]

Not a bug.

The first time I thought I had killed all enemy vehicles and turrets, but when the 30 minutes were over it said I lost, but I guess I missed some vehicle under water.

After that first try most of the time the opposition destroyed the engine of my 120mm Apollo. attacking the main objective with the 20mm ones was more or less hopeless.

After that I tried using the 20mms first and destroy all turrets and light vehicles. After a while I always lose them and then don't have enough time left to destroy the heavy tanks and remaining vehicles with the 120mm.

Oh, and I often lose the engine this way all the same.

[tankibanki]

Got the latest update, tried the mission once again and succeeded the first time, with 13 minutes to spare. Accomplished the next one on the first attempt as well. I wonder how I managed to fail each time in the past...

[Paul Snively]

Don't feel bad—I was basically at sea the first, oh, half-dozen times I played, too. Then I got the manual and read it and payed attention.

But now, on the third difficulty slot, I'm finding the third mission, on the moon, basically impossible: within seconds of establishing line-of-sight to my opponents, they have me dead with their ion weapons vs. my tanks and mortars. Ugh.