The Skinny on Civ4 vs SC2

[Liam]

Alright for all you MicroManaging fanatical Tile, Hexagon folk out there like myself... I have some info for you, that isn't biased by the magazine editors and Internet Publishers.

Civ4 first off, requires a hell of a Machine. I would suggest 1 to 2 gig of Ram. Pent. 4 better than 3.0 definitely. High grade graphics card 128mg 3-d. This is a bare minimum, on-line play not yet tested so I can't comment. You can play with less but you'll have to have 3 or 4 countries Max or a Small semi-Small Map.. That's the Requirements...

As far as the Tile Warefare, a little disorienting when your machine slows down and there are 100-200 cities worldwide, not a bad thing though. The Interface has lots and lots of improvements over Civ3.. A very similar chessmatch IMO. A little prettier graphics, a little prettier warfare... Not just 1 AxeMan Hacking hacking... To be honest with you I'm not smitten, I am more addicted to this than any other release since SC1 that's how bad the market is... Personally I'm a bit let down. I will finish a game or two, and believe me they take a few dozen hours and report back. You should honestly say that SC2 may be the game release of the year for IP anyways. Civ4 is definitely very advanced and has upteen new features I'll give it that though I'm not quite yet sold as I thought I should've been. I was expected to be blown away instead I'm mildly amused.

any question ask

[Liam]

Features:

Plenty of units upgrades, not just advancements in Veteran, elite, etc... although they're superflous.

Plenty of Wonders, if you setup the game on a high level of difficulty though is pretty worthless, that just means more tech and you better get mean on the AI early or get eaten by Modern Armor when you finally breakthrough with Infantry.

The the Graphics show clearly lots of detail and that shows lots of promise I'm impressed. I saw a few dozen Babylonian Gunships Axe my German Panzers was pretty pathetic I didn't pay attention to his Power till it was too late. Like usual the AI builds 5 Xs what you can if you setup the difficulty level<which shows competitive not by Skill but by Numerical advantage which I think is not good>

The Units are better represented in Graphics, entrenchment values, city defense, hill, forest, mountain... More qualities to each. You get a feel of a wargame a little more involving than the old 1 2 1 2 with Civ... 50% Culture 50% Conquest. I definitely can gear this more to a wargame...

That's about it, all and all I'll give it this you will have detail and you will be busy with this puppy if you like Civs... If you didn't like the others, don't buy!

I am not yet MP with this, dunno if I'll keep it.. It's rather addictive despite being a bit clunky and slow. Think I'd prefer the simplicity of an SC2 type game. Something I can talk on the phone or watch T.V. and still play after a few weeks of training.

All and all a I give it 1 thumb up and and a thumb Down.

[jon_j_rambo]

@Liam --- William = Liam, eh? Thanks for the review.

[SeaMonkey]

Liam, what's the deal, haven't you tried WaW?

It isn't SC, but the next best thing. Plenty of competitive folks out there and the TCIP beta is there for on line play.

[jon_j_rambo]

WaW has TCP/IP live play?

[SeaMonkey]

Dang it Rambo...you need to take something for your memory....or lay off the brewskies.

I told you about this a long time ago, there are a number of your fellow TCPers playing this game, like Avatar and DH.

Now the on line play is a beta that is open to the public for download if you register as a tester.

Get the game, learn it, play it, and come back here and post your ideas prompted from its best features.

[jon_j_rambo]

@SMS --- Yeah, I know dude. But what is the key information in your post? "Now the online play is a beta...", what good does that do me?

I want to buy a game (hand over the dough) & not have this..."now go get some beta download late crap" to play online live.

Legend demands more than that crap.

[fischkopf]

Rambo you have to work on your self-confidence.

C'mon map, stiffen that upper lip, keep your chin up!

[John DiFool the 2nd]

They tweaked the combat parameters some, but it is

still basically Civ combat. Looking forward to

SC2 more mainly because of how combat is handled.

[Yes I know Civ isn't a wargame per se]

[JerseyJohn]

Liam,

Thanks for the information on Civ IV, I was very curious about it. I play a different sort of game with Civ III. Every month or two I get disgusted with warriors defeating Legions and remove the whole thing and it's 1.29 from my hard drive. An hour passes, maybe more, and I play the second part, reinstalling the damn thing and getting aggravated all over again.

Anyway, my machine is Pent IV, 2002 vintage, it was great a couple of years back but starting to become obsolescent now. Your description of the game requirements convinced me to wait a while before buying it, till I've got something more current to run it on.

[JerseyJohn]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

@Liam --- William = Liam, eh?

Did you learn that, as I did, from the season finale of Real Time with Bill Maher?

I've noticed over the years that we watch many of the same shows. Real Time is the only weekly I go out of my way to catch.

[Liam]

Rambo, played WAW, it's a fine game without IP abilities and without my interest. I do not have the time to wait for a PBEM game to finish. I'll be 50 by the time it does, I've noticed that those slow paced PBEMs never had my X-Generation attention span. Nor a majority of the Baby Boomers or WW2 Gens

SC2 I hope lives up to a improved SC, with a lot of extras, that's all I really hope for.. That with several dozen more tactics strategies to win. No MORE SUPER FIGHTERS, let the B-17s Rob Germany of it's industrial Might. Let's see a real Kursk. Let the showdown in the Atlantic happen and no more MPP city for Germany... Let her work for her victories not buy tech and pray. Rommel flanking the Brits in N.Africa and the Suez blocking off the Great British Empire. All sorts of thoughts, endless really

John:

I know how you feel, I really am disgusted with my ex-top of the line Pentium 4 1.9 GHz and whoa, 512k Ram, 128 9200 Radeon. This really use to kick butt now in Civ4 Terms it's a sleeper... The tubes burning out in my 21 inch Flat Screen LCD is the best part of the machine and the hardest to replace. I'm sorely dissappointed now I will have to replace that. Look up on Ebay from a reliable seller some day, you might find the Bones to a good up-to-date 64 bit system comming out in the next 6 months if you trust them.

I'm so bored with the game releases I think I'll shoot all these programmers and take it up. I am good enough to design something that the world would play. I'd copy several current games, make them newer and add some features. All that really needs to be done and you could sell some pancakes. Sort of what the RTS world did which is now petering out. Hexagons and Tiles are still untouched, virginal for the new Millenia though... Let's hope it doesn't stay that way, but that could potentially chase out smaller markets for games like SC which would be bad, so I'm undecided...

God I'm built up about SC2 release. I miss good good wargames... These old ones are making me snore. If you do Buy Civ4 buy it on Ebay folks. 20 bucks in a month and get a good Rep with 0 back feedback. Don't buy from a guy that doesn't say it's from N.America and make certian to use Paypal and buyer's Insurance... so you don't get ripped off... Saves you a few dollars but you have to have patience to wait 2 weeks to get your game.

[jon_j_rambo]

I love you guys...

@Sir Jersey --- Ha! You figured that one out! That's why you're a "Made Man" my East Coast friend. Anybody who can catch things in my posts like Liam = Wil-liam, from a Real Time w/ Bill Maher is a wise man! I confess, I never thought of that, aren't I the dumb one?

Want to know another great show? "The Wire" !!! Just got done watching season one, just started season two...HBO is making season four. I also love Larry David in Curb Your Enthusiam, of course the Sopranos, Inside the NFL, Da Ali G Show. The Legend also has DirecTV with the MLB package, NFL Ticket, NBA Pass, NCAA Game Plan, NHL Center Ice...dude, my Camp has all the sport's packages. I only watch HBO, sports, movies, & crap in High Definition.

Somebody rack Sir Jersey, please send him a "I got racked on BF by Rambo" T-Shirt.

@Liam --- I'm with you brother. I'd rather play 2-3 fast games of TCP/IP than a senior citizen match of PBEM.

[SeaMonkey]

Listen you guys....I've said this before but I'll repeat it.....well....I guess you guys are worth it.

For real fast on line action, not the strategical scale, but in the spirit of true wargaming, take command of a corps, specifically the British XXX.

Give orders and watch them be prosecuted like it really happened, micromanage if you want, but if you are, you are losing.

If you haven't tried AA, Panther's game engine, you are missing out. And with the new addition almost ready for release, Conquest of the Aegean, many more hours of command decisions are right around the corner.

[hellraiser]

I am a huge fan of Civ games. Got recently Civ 4 and it's doing fine on my new rig. Heck, even my old one (P4 2.4HT, 512 RAM, intel mobo, radeon 9600pro) would do pretty ok. Graphichs is not THAT important, it is rather a CPU intensive game rather than a GPU one.

OFC, the new PC is a gaming monster (more or less) and it plays Civ 4 very smoothly - AMD Opteron 146 , overclocked to 2.5-2.6 GHz, 2 Giga of RAM, DFI nf4 ultra badass mobo and a 7800GTX graphic card can play probably every existent game on the most demanding settings.

A lot of ppl are switching over to Opteron 144-146-148 - they are monstrous overclockers,64 bit architecture (so they are ready for tommorrow) and (if overclocked to 2.5-2.7GHz) almost reach the AMD FX 57 performances, wich is the most powerful gaming CPU alive but costs like USD 1k or more

So for less than USD 200, with a good motherboard, you're in for the most demanding today's games.

@Liam - get more RAM and try to overclock the CPU a little. It may do the trick with less $$$. OFC get some decent cooler

[Lars]

I'm a huge fan of Civ too. However, this release was fubar'ed. I couldn't even get the damn thing to load. From reading the forums, quite the mess.

Btw, did this game really need the system specs they put it out on? Would have had a much broader market if they had dropped the 3-D eye candy.

[hellraiser]

@Lars - you're definitely right. A good turn based strategy game doesn't need i don't know what shiny 3D stuff mixed in, in order to succeed. If one wants graphics - 3D shooters, RPGs are the answer.

[BigDog944]

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:

For real fast on line action, not the strategical scale, but in the spirit of true wargaming, take command of a corps, specifically the British XXX.

Give orders and watch them be prosecuted like it really happened, micromanage if you want, but if you are, you are losing.

If you haven't tried AA, Panther's game engine, you are missing out. And with the new addition almost ready for release, Conquest of the Aegean, many more hours of command decisions are right around the corner.

Yes, SeaMonkey. Airborne Assault, Highway to the Reich is a great game! I personally think the engine is ahead of its time. It's the type of game we'll all be playing in 2007, but hardly anyone's playing today because so few gamers really have what it takes to command a successful military operation!

Personally, I've played the tutorials twice, now! Loved them both times and have been meaning to commit more time to the game, but have always been side tracked. By the time I get back to it, I feel I need to do the tutorials again... Oh well.

[JerseyJohn]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

I love you guys...

@Sir Jersey --- Ha! You figured that one out! That's why you're a "Made Man" my East Coast friend. Anybody who can catch things in my posts like Liam = Wil-liam, from a Real Time w/ Bill Maher is a wise man! ...

Want to know another great show? "The Wire" !!! Just got done watching season one, just started season two...HBO is making season four. I also love Larry David in Curb Your Enthusiam, of course the Sopranos, Inside the NFL, Da Ali G Show. ...

Somebody rack Sir Jersey, please send him a "I got racked on BF by Rambo" T-Shirt.

Appreciated Brother Rambo and, as always, likewise.

I like all the shows you've mentioned. Larry David is a riot, I feel like I've known him all my life; I grew up with a lot of guys like that. Ali G is weird and can be very funny when he isn't aggravating to watch. I busted a gut when Andy Rooney kicked him out of his office. Haven't seen much of the Wire, but I like two other HBO series this season, Extras and Rome. Bill Maher's specials, especially I'm Swiss, are really riots.

Thanks for the T-shirt. When it arrives I'll wear it proudly.

Liam,

Thanks for the computer advice. I'm not sure what the specs are on this one but I think it runs at 1600, which was good at the time, but pretty slow three years later.

If it weren't for game requirements I'd have no problem with it at all. It runs everything crisp and clean, but I don't have anything new going on it, so I know it isn't as quick as it appears.

I'm figuring on a new computer in about two years, unless some expected windfall occurs. :cool: