Edwin P. Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 As the demo is really short, I figure I could have more fun by seeing how many Russian cities I could conquer. So I conquered Denmark and Norway. Then moved all Axis units except for 3 units on the French border and 1 air unit to the Eastern Front and Mechanized all of my corps. Then I invaded Russia. Now, what did and French and British AI do while I was doing this. 1. The Allied Air units were constantly attacking my German cities. Good. 2. The French land units need better leadership. One or two French Armies units attack the center German unit on the border. Then they switched to attacking the unit on the left and then the unit on the right. Often times only one unit attacked. Why didn't all three French units attack the center German unit on Turn 5, then pull back the damaged French units and attack with Fresh units on Turn 5+1. Supported by air power they should be able to break the German line. 3. Russian AI was better than SC1, it guarded its cities a lot better. Everytime I got in range of an empty city it would operate or move in a Russian unit. When a HQ unit was about to be surrounded it operated East, good move. So far, it looks as if the French/UK AI needs offensive scripts to use if the Axis is at war with Russian and the Benelux countries are still neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Forget trying to play that game vs the AI ...it was stupid it is stupid and it will be stupid forever in comparison to human player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMG42 Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Perhaps, but 90% of the silent crowd of players will only play a game solo. And this would be a pity if Hubert gave up on AI improvement, possibilities exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Exactly, and this is why Hubert implemented the possibility to script AI behaviour, tactics and events. Consider the existing scripts the starting point which will, no doubt, be improved upon as the AI is tested against thousands of human players... Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Forget trying to play that game vs the AI ...it was stupid it is stupid and it will be stupid forever in comparison to human player. I'd have to seriously disagree here, Dragonheart. The current AI is better, by far, Than what we had before. (... not EVEN accounting for setting "difficulty levels" OR "tweaking" various "balance factors" in the Editor) Next-Gen AI will be stupid ONLY IF The person who recognizes a need, And then proceeds to improve upon it, Is... stupid HIMSELF (... or, herself, since there MUST be some sisters out there who like war-games). Now, Having been around awhile, I don't know anybody On this here board who is stupid. Therefore, The AI in time will be more like... yer Average Joe. :cool: Like the most of us are. Then, as more time passes, AI will come to resemble - say, A Stephen Hawking or Albert Einstein? LOL, no, I CAN agree with you in that regard, We probably won't get to bend, Suspend, or visualize the whole Universe In a brand new way. But... I have made some AI scripts. I have watched, Amazed and fascinated as those very scripts Changed the behavior Of a Nation's combat units Given a particular set of circumstances. Now, Who would be as stupid as Prometheus? Playing with fire like that? Bound to a rock? Not me... UNLESS I am provided With easy-to-understand templates, And examples, And explanations, As we have with EACH Set of potential AI or Event scripts. But if I can do that - and I am rank amateur When it comes to manipulating ANYTHING to do with Computers and coding. Well, What will YOU, Or the next, or the next "Average Joe" be able to accomplish? Who are MUCH more competent In this area, than I? Not to mention Hubert, Who is a Wizard at this sort of Gold Game Alchemy. Who has clearly indicated, Time and time and time again, He surely INTENDS to improve SC-2. With the assistance Of an awful lot of... Average Joes. :cool: Now, how can you beat that? Nothing "stupid" there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Is that some kind of chained-haiku or sumfink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Is that some kind of chained-haiku or sumfink? LOL, nice association. Don't believe I've had the pleasure, Pleased to meet you, GJK, Hope you are able - to guess? The nature of my game? Actually, It blisters under un-setting Sun, Becoming, as transformation, A heap of hot letters - then! A scatter of ashes - when! All is said and done. Ah, I must be abashed, and so, I can merely mention this: What fabulous fun! For everyone! Almost! Making their very own "AI & Event" Scripts! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaoJah Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Originally posted by Dragonheart: Forget trying to play that game vs the AI ...it was stupid it is stupid and it will be stupid forever in comparison to human player. Don't be so self-centered. Alot of people on this forum are very player-versus-player minded, but in general, most people play against the AI. And the AI needs improvement. From what I've seen in the demo, certain things are worse then before. For instance the UK only sending one ship to my Atlantic U-boat. Or withdrawing from the French-Benelux border on turn one. Or leaving the the airplane in north-east France attackable by my tank. The AI needs polishing in it's first patch or the word-of-mouth will be devastating. Not on this forum, ofcourse, we're all fans of the game, but for the rest of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 And the AI needs improvement. What's new, TaoJah? It always does. It always will. It is nothing Except a (... often, please keep in mind) HARD-done crafting of symbols On a series of straight lines, Like on a music score-sheet. AT LEAST, With SC-2, Many WILL be able to improve things, Maybe even sing along, We'll see. The AI needs polishing in it's first patch or the word-of-mouth will be devastating. Most folks tend to discount "Anecdotal reports." Even from reviewers. Unless said reviewer has major mojo influence. How many like that? I don't know of none, but I don't get around much, like some. Well, Hardly ANYBODY has played the whole game As of yet. Nor, enny improved version, How could they? LOL! Let's see what happens then, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 Originally posted by Moon: Exactly, and this is why Hubert implemented the possibility to script AI behaviour, tactics and events. Consider the existing scripts the starting point which will, no doubt, be improved upon as the AI is tested against thousands of human players... Martin This is why I like the Sc2 concept. It makes it easy for the players and designers to tweak the AI. No single designer (i.e. HC) or design team (i.e. Microsoft and the Age of Empires Line) can plan for all possible player strategies. You focus on the most likely player strategies and not the rarely used ones. The strategy I mentioned above would be one of the rarely used ones. Only a dumb human would not attack the Benelux countries, correct? A most unlikely strategy, but one that the AI needs guidance on how to respond to. The SC2 system allows the players and designers to easily improve the AI's actions. No other tile/hex based wargame; that I am aware of, offers this in such a user accessible format. [ April 06, 2006, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 I'm going to back DragonHeart. The dude is a glory player & part of the "The A.I. doesn't count" group. The Original G, Legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 Quick note, on another Moscow First Game. Reached Moscow in Game Two and reduced HQ unit guarding it to 4, Siberian Transfer Occurred and DEMO Ended. Perhaps next time I will actually take Moscow before time runs out in the Demo Version. Found diplomacy to be very useful as got Hungary to join Axis on Turn 2 and Romania on Turn 4. In the West, the Allies followed a new strategy, only two attacks on the German units guarding the Border with France, and much less use of Allied Air Power. They must be sleeping this game. In the Atlantic - WOW - Allied Navy patrolled South Atlantic and found my sub off the coast of Spain! Just luck? Other Sub was attacking UK convoy route to Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justanotherwargamer Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 AIs are a market requirement. It's nice when the AI plays better than a dim witted little girl of course. But, as the game can be played solo hotseat, no major tragedy. Human vs Human is almost universally superior. But, I HAVE played people dumber than little girls before (sadly). So playing vs Human is not 100% garanteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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