HQ's & Leaders, but how about Herman Goering?

[jon_j_rambo]

There should be a Herman Goering piece in SC & SC-2. This Chubby Bunta was in charge of specific military operations & should be represented in the HQ force pool.

[Kuniworth]

Not in agreement with you. If Göring why not every other divisional commander in the german wehrmacht?

We're talking ground forces commanders on an army group level or at least an army level here.

[Titan]

Goring had a major influence on the Axis Kuniworth,he had a huge role in infleuncing stalingrad,battle of britain and also how germany shaped her air arm,so he was right up there over and above any divisional commander kuniworth so i would have to agree with Rambo here in that he needs to be represented if not for the flavour of the game

[Kuniworth]

Titan;

So do you think all the other air-generals of the other powers should be included? Or is your selection based upon how well-known they are?

You only want this guy because he is the only one you ever heard about.

Why not have Mengele command a hospital unit?

[Kuniworth]

Yeah and here is some word of wisom that people always tell me; remember that you can always use the editor to include Göring.

[jon_j_rambo]

@Kuniworth --- Calm down & clean up your act. It's funny (sad) how you like to worship Manstein & Rommel, yet you won't accept the fact Goering was calling the shots. The rest of your German Worshiping friends are the same. They like to blame Hitler for the losses, and give credit to Manstein & Rommel.

[AZGungHo]

If you are thinking of including Goering then why not Himmler? After all he commanded an army in 1945 - and did a lousy job of it!

You could say he hastened the Russian victory in '45 - even tho it was a foregone conclusion.

And of course if you follow your logic for Goering then you'd have to include Hitler, certainally everyone would agree he had more influence on battles than Goering did wouldn't they? (I'm going to regret asking that question aren't I?)

Obviously SC only includes a sampling of commanders, not every one and not even every important one - you can check out the discussion about certain Russian leaders in other threads.

And yep - Kuni is right - for those wanting to clutter up the game with every commander and leader you think is important, there's always the editor!

[Liam]

More realisticly why not have the X-Factor for the High Command. Semi-Disastrous things happening such as a unit not obeying a command, or a unit limited to 1 movement when it usually has 3 or 4 movement points. Readiness being reduced 20-30%. Etc... I.E. The Dreadful French in charge of all Western Allied Forces before fall of France. Noone can be quite that inept aside from Stalin and his Purges, which should be reflected that you cannot recruit a decent Soviet General for a good 6 months or until 1942.....they were fast in recovering

similarly the German High Command Squabbling over everything, it was a system of competitiveness between Nazi bigwigs, really awful system. Where not the best man but the High Standing man in the Party was often placed in a particular position. Often 3 or 4 men competeing with each in other in one area, such as the luftwaffe and the lack of coordination between armed forces. The LW and Wermacht did so so as far as I know but the Kriegsmarine and LW didn't do so well...

All this could be reflected. When someone attempts to upgrade a Bomber, perhaps a message appears, "sorry cannot be upgraded due to High Command reallocation of resources"

You could easily streamline these errors, everything Major Failure that in the end some say decided the war. All on the shoulders of Leaders, not really fighting men. They were doing what they were ordered to do. Everything should match history, you can easily program little nasties into the game to reflect the weaknesses of each High Command

USA, was pretty stellar, just weak in mobilizing due to isolationists.

Germany, infighting and very feeble minded leadership disjointed by dogma and overzealous faith in a near Religious Icon<who splintered his whole nation to keep order>

France <completely incompetent at the onset of war, they were living in the 20s>

Britian, Weak and unable to act, then suddenly a Challenger and Defiant force. Strong leadership overall on the over echelon but often afraid to make move due to fear.

Russians, Weak leadership until you kill off enough to make the existing leadership experienced enough to fight and a very mental Leader as Germany had.

Italy, we needn't even discuss this a completely blind leader with no hindsight, fairly brave soldats completely incompetent leaders.

[jon_j_rambo]

Yeah, lets add Hitler too, I'm all for it. I'd love to send the Band of Brothers to the Eagle's Nest & capture that paper hanging SOB. Add Death & POW camps too.

[Liam]

John, a good point would be, though this would be touchy due to the sensitive nature of a salesmen trying to sell say 1000 copies of a game to a nation that doesn't want to remeber such atrocities.

I would however purpose that in SC, we are the Chief and Commander and though Grey or Green we can run it any way we like...

Historically accurate however there should be a % increase in foreign War Readiness as the war progresses. IMO personally I would add in a feature for our on-line psychopaths, proceed with the Nazi exterminations or turn the undesirables into Liberated souls and add the Manpower and Industrial might to the Reich... Hell, don't forget now, Russians would have to be on the list too.. How come when Stalin invades German cities there isn't a German Scorched Earth Policy? Hmmm, double standard about The Game...

Every woman in Berlin was raped numerous times during the fall of Berlin, millinos were in an exodus from Prussia to Germany during the end days. Countless millions of German civilians died. Perhaps Bombing German cities should incite a further war effort, as did bombing Brits, having a possibly negative effect for choosing to bomb ports, cities and killing civilians... for each bombing a possible chance the next turn of 5 MPP output extra from that resource due to the citizens going out of their way to produce for their Fatherland, Motherland, etc...

[jon_j_rambo]

Sounds good to me, I want to liberate the camps. "We were suppose to protect those who couldn't protect themselves, we were suppose to protect Willy" --- Harrold, in the classic, Few Good Men.

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Liam:

... a nation that doesn't want to remeber such atrocities.

I have noticed, over these

Lengthy lived years, that most

Nations prefer not to remember their own,

Yet are quite liable to mention those committed

By others.

America in 1900's,

French in Algeria,

Japan in China,

Spanish in South America, ah,

The list could go on and on. :eek:

How come when Stalin invades German cities there isn't a German Scorched Earth Policy? Hmmm, double standard about The Game...

The "indifferent Nazi,"

And accomplished architect,

Albert Speer,

Personally counter-manded most of Hitler's

Self-immolation inspired

(... may as well burn down MY State

since I started the unholy conflagration

to begin with)

"Scorched earth" orders,

In hopes of preserving some semblance

Of post-war GErman society & culture.

Default game does NOT have scorched earth

Enabled, but,

You may have it should you feel

It is appropriate,

Using the Editor

That not-Kafka's K

Admires so much.

[JerseyJohn]

No. Goering didn't actually serve as an army group commander, more like a random incompetent lurking behind the scenes.

The way Clash of Steel, Europe Ablaze and various other games handled this was to have special rules that generated less than wise decisions affecting the execution of the German player's orders.

For example, in the Battle of Britain, when things were at their worst for the Luftwaffe, Goering suddenly made three momentous decisions. One was to cut fighter plane production in favor of bombers and cargo aircraft, two was to begin shifting veteran fighter pilots into flying bombers and three, was to inform Sperlle and Kesselring that he wanted their fighter planes to remain close to the bombers at all times. According to Adolf Galland, it was a hideously bad order that destroyed any chance the German aces had of effectively protecting the formations they were escorting.

But the thing is, these are broad policy decisions made by Goering, nothing in common with the role of a field commander.

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by rambo junior:

The rest of your German Worshiping friends are the same.

LOLOLOL!

When?

Are you going to desist with this blatant

Appeal to jingoistic and chauvanistic

Fellow citizens?

NO ONE that I have thus far encountered

On these SC boards

Even REMOTELY strikes me as

A... "GErman worshiper."

Many who accord the average

Everyday GErman survivor... the respect

That they deserve,

As once, and now valuable contributors

To the World's knowledge,

Whether that be in Science,

Music, Literature or visual arts.

I presume your remarks are merely IRONIC.

IE, one might worship the best qualities

Of ANY Nation's peoples.

And, I do not know of ANYONE who is involved

In the making of SC-2,

Who FAVORS the GErmans.

I am guessing... hmmmm, YOU are

Sub-consciously concerned,

As well you should be,

About - oh no, NOT enny old Fascists,

But, instead, the ones might be found

TODAY,

Even, might I suggest, in your own

Beloved city,

In yer beloved State,

And, in the recently begrimed

And befouled corridors

Of Washington DC?

[JerseyJohn]

The Bunta Marching Song

I’m a Bunta yes that's me,

My allegiance lies across the sea.

When I see a leading nazi,

How my pulse gets oh so slatzi!

Yes I’m a Bunta Man,

An American Bunta Man,

Just call me old Claus Boobie,

I got a baton with a big red ruby.

Brother Rambo’s Right as Rain,

He gets it from his Yankee Brain,

That every one of us are a Bunta,

Guess it is a kind of junta.

We are all Bunta Men,

Some old American Bunta Men,

We got it straight from the Bible,

We’re all so very-very tribal.

We got our German Blood,

Any other would just be mud,

You say you are a partial Heini,

All right that is a little shiny.

You are a Bunta Man,

But just a partial Bunta Man

So don't get carried away

Because you may not be here to stay.

Now polish up your Iron Cross,

You know we never had that loss,

Just wait till SC-2's in sight,

We’ll use the editor to make things right!

[ January 13, 2006, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[nemo]

No one can deny the influence and military genius of Colonel Klink. And, to balance the game, you must have his foil, Hogan. Any WWII game worth its salt would prepackage their tiles.

[jon_j_rambo]

You guys have proved my point....it's always "Manstein this, Manstein that.", then you confess than Chubby called random shots. What kind of game is it without Chubby Bunta?

[hellraiser]

yeah, add Darth Vader as well ...

[Slapaho]

if u had hitler as a leader you could add +1 to all german HQ, after the german generals plot to kill him succeeds. afterall, the german generals only plotted to kill him AFTER they decided he was going to lose them the war, not for actually taking them to war and the war would likely of continued on with or without him.

[Sombra]

Well Rambo please give it a rest. We all know how the WW2 ended but if you want you can loose every game as axis by default. Part of the fun in war simulations is for me to see what would have been possible with another leader who does not repeat the same mistakes.

[Liam]

::laughs::

ahhhh, guys let's take it out in the ring. You have to use all that pent up aggression in actual combat... Superiority of One Nation over the other!

JESUS LOOK AT THE DOOR, "American Eagle is now DHL with Deutschland flag colors on it!" What has happened. Proctor and Gamble is now owned by the BundesBank! Beware folks They watched France and Was Great Britian win with Trading Empires now they caught on to the only way to dominate the World with your Goods and Services!

screw Panzers and Me109s that's never going to cut it. Automatic Shavers and Automobiles<and they're BETTER THAN OURS>> OUGHT OH!

[Agent Smith]

The key question I need to know here is what value will I assign my Colonel Klink HQ?

[JerseyJohn]

You're giving him a 10?! I'd give Klink a 4 and Schultz a 10!

[santabear]

So does Col. Hogan get a rating?

SB

P.S. My opinion is that the whole purpose of this game is to let us be Hitler, Goering, Stalin, Churchill or Roosevelt (Marshall?) and fight the war the RIGHT way (i.e. the way we would do it). So we don't need these characters in the game. Just give me some good folks to run my armies and let me take care of the big picture.

[Agent Smith]

J.J.

If I'm playing Hogan(Allies), then Klink get -3!

Burkhalter gets a 2

Schultz gets a 0

and Klinks secretary get a "Va Va Voom"!